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Off-Topic => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Indy on March 13, 2020, 04:24:25 pm

Title: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Indy on March 13, 2020, 04:24:25 pm
So, since it's an unavoidable topic these days, I thought: Let's open up a thread about the new coronavirus.
Say what you want about the subject of TPB, but when you're on TPB, you're likely not infecting anyone else, so... you can now always say that you're doing the world a favour by surfing TPB :)

Anyway, how's your situation?

For me, the province that I live in is under soft-quarantine. It's hit the hardest in our country. Mostly because a large part of the labour force is located here, and working at home is impossible for many people here.
Fortunately, me and my girl are in the luxury position that we can work from home and not be in contact with the outside world.
We did our groceries at the start of the week and well, got for about a month's worth of supplies, so we'd be good for a while. Just need to hope that power and internet stays online.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: teamfake on March 13, 2020, 11:43:24 pm
Here in the US, we seem to be unprepared for how fast this is spreading. Not enough testing kits, many aren’t taking it seriously enough while some are totally overreacting. Obviously the financial markets have taken a beating and if we can’t stop this thing we will likely be in at least a short term recession.
As far boobs go, I imagine many surgeries will have to be postponed sadly. Hopefully we can all get through this without too much loss of life and detrimental economic effects. I own a gym so we are currently deciding when or if we may have to close our doors for a period of time. Although the disease may not be too serious for healthy people, it appears to be very dangerous for older folks with other medical issues.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on March 14, 2020, 02:40:09 am
My job requires me to travel a LOT. I live in Barcelona, and Spain is doing almost as pathetic a job of handling this as the US is. However, I'm not there most of the time. MY sister is with Doctors without Borders, and while she and her family live in Montana, where there have been no cases reported... yet, she's like me, in that she spends a lot of time away from home. She's an MD, who worked for the NIH for a few years, and she says there's no reason for us to panic. So I don't.  Although, like my sister, I'm very cautious. I wash my hands a LOT, have foregone handshaking, which isn't a problem, because handshaking isn't a huge deal, until I have to deal with Americans. (My girlfriend, who is Catalan and works for the Spanish Foreign Ministry, refers to we Americans as, "Handshaking, grinning fools.")

I find the countries I've been to that are doing the best at handling this have one thing in common: They test. In South Korea, it's the damndest thing. The government sets up stations in parking lots, where you can get tested without even leaving your car. (Their outbreaks are slowing down.) A
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: BoobFlex2016 on March 14, 2020, 04:35:52 am
OK...so here's my 2 cents....

I don't understand -- and I admit I'm not a doctor but I do work in the health industry - I simply dont' understand why the panic *THIS TIME*.... That's not an intended slam and I'm not uninformed or ignorant so please don't direct me to any health websites.  But.... No one has been able to explain in a reasonable - logical - sane way why H1N1, MERS, SARS, and Ebola *COMBINED* didn't cause this kind of "Mad Max" "Andromeda Strain" "Day the Earth stood still" end of the world hysteria... Again, I know CoVid real... Yes, I know it has a long incubation period... Yes, I know its serious.  Yes, I know it's novel...But the 4 previous mentioned outbreaks had similar or worse components.  My friend lost a child to H1N1; almost 20k dead in the US -- 60 million infected world wide... And almost nothing was canceled.  And barely a mention on any world wide media outlets.  Why now? why this time?

 As for the fatality rates, if you remove China from the stats (And I think you have to if you are being honest), the fatality rate is lower than H1N1 and Ebola and is on par with SARS. In fact, Covid19 seems to be only causing Pneumonia in those already very susceptible to that condition (IE the elderly & sick).  These outbreaks happen about every 2 years... start in China...Go away when the weather becomes less conducive to viral spreading...  I just don't see why this CoVid is generating the panic... I'm not into conspiracy theories so I dont' think it is just "orange man bad" (IE get President Trump). But, I work in a world of rational facts and I can't get to a rational conclusion on this. 

So, if this *IS* an attempt by elites and media powers to see if they can still forward an agenda by overstating an event resulting in panic among common citizens....wow, thats really sad....  Now, pass me the Purell....  ::)
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Milom on March 14, 2020, 05:19:26 am
OK...so here's my 2 cents....

I don't understand -- and I admit I'm not a doctor but I do work in the health industry - I simply dont' understand why the panic *THIS TIME*.... That's not an intended slam and I'm not uninformed or ignorant so please don't direct me to any health websites.  But.... No one has been able to explain in a reasonable - logical - sane way why H1N1, MERS, SARS, and Ebola *COMBINED* didn't cause this kind of "Mad Max" "Andromeda Strain" "Day the Earth stood still" end of the world hysteria... Again, I know CoVid real... Yes, I know it has a long incubation period... Yes, I know its serious.  Yes, I know it's novel...But the 4 previous mentioned outbreaks had similar or worse components.  My friend lost a child to H1N1; almost 20k dead in the US -- 60 million infected world wide... And almost nothing was canceled.  And barely a mention on any world wide media outlets.  Why now? why this time?

50 deaths at my last count, divided by 2033 cases is a 2.4 percent fatality rate, so a little higher than china's original alarming fatality rate. And you don't know if that rate will stay that low here. The reason this is a bigger deal is because unlike those other viruses you are not symptomatic for a significant amount of time you're contagious. It spreads easily through the air, through ventilation. The high end has 160 million infected within 18 months. That's because the growth is exponential. 2 people spread to 4 people spread to 16 people on and on and on. This is why unlike any of those other viruses you mentioned, everyone is getting this.

Even at 1% fatality rate we'd be looking at almost 2 million people dead in the united states alone. World wide you'd be looking at over 100 million dead.

Don't take my word for it, just do the numbers for yourself on a calculator. Google what the CDC is saying and career virologists/epidemiologists.

I want you to try and imagine 2 million people dying in the next 18 months. Imagine the logistical problems involved in disposing of 2 million bodies.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: MidnightBoobies on March 14, 2020, 03:02:40 pm
Here in the US, we seem to be unprepared for how fast this is spreading. Not enough testing kits, many aren’t taking it seriously enough while some are totally overreacting. Obviously the financial markets have taken a beating and if we can’t stop this thing we will likely be in at least a short term recession.


I've been seeing this already, I work retail and have had my hours cut due to lack of business.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: aokpo on March 14, 2020, 03:39:05 pm
All Flu's are seasonal, in the tropics Apil May is the hottest months, in Northern latitudes July August. The worst should be over by then.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: dajkam on March 14, 2020, 04:44:23 pm
Maybe this Coronavirus is just an opening for greater changes in the world to take place very soon. I agree with BoobFlex2016 on:

"So, if this *IS* an attempt by elites and media powers to see if they can still forward an agenda by overstating an event resulting in panic among common citizens."

I think the fuss was made to cover up a major economic crisis that was supposed to happen anyway.

I was also struck on what Jordan Peterson has said on the correlation between infectious diseases and totalitarian governments. So I suppose we would be having political changes in the world soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmRRO6f-HXY

( Please ignore the title and the subtitles, they are in my native language. Its a part of a much longer interview)

 But anyway that's only my assumptions.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: fl4ppytippy on March 14, 2020, 05:48:16 pm
Maybe this Coronavirus is just an opening for greater changes in the world to take place very soon. I agree with BoobFlex2016 on:

"So, if this *IS* an attempt by elites and media powers to see if they can still forward an agenda by overstating an event resulting in panic among common citizens."

I think the fuss was made to cover up a major economic crisis that was supposed to happen anyway.

I was also struck on what Jordan Peterson has said on the correlation between infectious diseases and totalitarian governments. So I suppose we would be having political changes in the world soon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmRRO6f-HXY

( Please ignore the title and the subtitles, they are in my native language. Its a part of a much longer interview)

 But anyway that's only my assumptions.

Holy fuck! Is stupidity also as contagious??
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: chevychase1 on March 15, 2020, 01:50:15 am
I'm more scared about it than my elderly parents, who don't seem to give a shit about it, despite me trying to convince them to change their habits.
I'm more worried about them than myself.
My sister and brother-in-law own two martial arts Dojos, and they are just beginning to panic as the cancellations have just begun.
Plus the football being suspended may mean that Liverpool's title win may never actually happen. Which is another downer.

I can barely believe that this is actually happening. ☹️
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: donaldtrump14 on March 15, 2020, 02:10:12 am
Well....What can I say about my country.Problem is not that CORONA-VIRUS is spreading so fast But that It's scare and misinformation are spreading even more faster.People are buying masks unnecessarily and These Online Marketplace...Like Amazon etc. are making Illegal profit by selling that "SCARE".
But it's so good to see that A thread has been initiated here in this regard.And there are Multiple threads in Reddit,Twitter too...Which are trying to Calm Down the situation.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Indy on March 15, 2020, 02:19:48 am
50 deaths at my last count, divided by 2033 cases is a 2.4 percent fatality rate

What you need to keep in mind is that there are not enough testing kits available. For example, in our country, they say: "Hey, if you've tested postitive and your family is also showing signs, then you can assume they're infected too. No need  to test them". That means that those family members are infected, but do not show up as infected cases. Add to this that 10% of the US population is not insured. Another 3%are undocumented immigrants who are also not insured. Very few of them will get tested, because of the fear of going bankrupt on hospital bills.
This means that the number of 2033 was much, much higher at that time, just not registered. But those 50 deaths, yes, those are 100% documented.
That means that the mortality rate in reality is much lower.

I don't want to downplay the seriousness of this, but just trying to point out that the statistics are no longer realistic, because not every case is registered any more.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Eddie_Valiant on March 15, 2020, 03:04:13 am
50 deaths at my last count, divided by 2033 cases is a 2.4 percent fatality rate

What you need to keep in mind is that there are not enough testing kits available. For example, in our country, they say: "Hey, if you've tested postitive and your family is also showing signs, then you can assume they're infected too. No need  to test them". That means that those family members are infected, but do not show up as infected cases. Add to this that 10% of the US population is not insured. Another 3%are undocumented immigrants who are also not insured. Very few of them will get tested, because of the fear of going bankrupt on hospital bills.
This means that the number of 2033 was much, much higher at that time, just not registered. But those 50 deaths, yes, those are 100% documented.
That means that the mortality rate in reality is much lower.

I don't want to downplay the seriousness of this, but just trying to point out that the statistics are no longer realistic, because not every case is registered any more.

It'll be months before a true mortality rate can be calculated. Nobody knows the bottom-end of the fraction, as only the worst  and/or most obvious cases are being tested. South Korea IMHO is the most likely nation to look to in the near future for real numbers as they have initiated a very widespread testing regimine. Here's a good article on the subject https://www.vox.com/2020/2/12/21134718/coronavirus-china-deaths-mortality-rate (https://www.vox.com/2020/2/12/21134718/coronavirus-china-deaths-mortality-rate)
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Hughman on March 16, 2020, 12:28:44 am
I work in Intensive Care. Only a few cases so far but we have primary contingency planning to double bed capacity, cancel all non urgent surgery (which generates about 20% of our patients). Second line is to convert theaters into another ICU, adding a further 50% capacity

The problem is this is a bad mix. Lethal enough to make a lot of people sick, but a long incubation and early disease time making it spread pretty easily. Hospitals with capacity are seeing about 0.5% mortality. Overloaded hospitals are above 5%. That's 20 and then 200 times more deadly than seasonal flu, and it's about as communicable, maybe slightly less
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on March 16, 2020, 05:20:17 pm
OK...so here's my 2 cents....

I don't understand -- and I admit I'm not a doctor but I do work in the health industry - I simply dont' understand why the panic *THIS TIME*.... That's not an intended slam and I'm not uninformed or ignorant so please don't direct me to any health websites.  But.... No one has been able to explain in a reasonable - logical - sane way why H1N1, MERS, SARS, and Ebola *COMBINED* didn't cause this kind of "Mad Max" "Andromeda Strain" "Day the Earth stood still" end of the world hysteria... Again, I know CoVid real... Yes, I know it has a long incubation period... Yes, I know its serious.  Yes, I know it's novel...But the 4 previous mentioned outbreaks had similar or worse components.  My friend lost a child to H1N1; almost 20k dead in the US -- 60 million infected world wide... And almost nothing was canceled.  And barely a mention on any world wide media outlets.  Why now? why this time?

50 deaths at my last count, divided by 2033 cases is a 2.4 percent fatality rate, so a little higher than china's original alarming fatality rate. And you don't know if that rate will stay that low here. The reason this is a bigger deal is because unlike those other viruses you are not symptomatic for a significant amount of time you're contagious. It spreads easily through the air, through ventilation. The high end has 160 million infected within 18 months. That's because the growth is exponential. 2 people spread to 4 people spread to 16 people on and on and on. This is why unlike any of those other viruses you mentioned, everyone is getting this.

Even at 1% fatality rate we'd be looking at almost 2 million people dead in the united states alone. World wide you'd be looking at over 100 million dead.

Don't take my word for it, just do the numbers for yourself on a calculator. Google what the CDC is saying and career virologists/epidemiologists.

I want you to try and imagine 2 million people dying in the next 18 months. Imagine the logistical problems involved in disposing of 2 million bodies.
The death rate is for those who get the virus.
Even way back after WW1, the Spanish Flu only affected about 1/4 of the world. Today, it obviously is much easier to shelter people.
 There is no way 25% of Americans are going to get the virus.
Also, the death rate for people under 40 is about 0.2% (assuming no other circumstances like severe asthma). That means if you are under 40 and relatively healthy and you get COVID-19. The odds of you dying are about 500:1 against.
 There is no way America will lose anywhere near even 100,000 people.
And if that number sounds unimaginable?
Just remember that in 2017/18 - 62,000 Americans died from the flu. And America got along just fine.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: punternet on March 16, 2020, 05:38:27 pm
Quote
The death rate is for those who get the virus.
Even way back after WW1, the Spanish Flu only affected about 1/4 of the world. Today, it obviously is much easier to shelter people.
 There is no way 25% of Americans are going to get the virus.
Also, the death rate for people under 40 is about 0.2% (assuming no other circumstances like severe asthma). That means if you are under 40 and relatively healthy and you get COVID-19. The odds of you dying are about 500:1 against.
 There is no way America will lose anywhere near even 100,000 people.
And if that number sounds unimaginable?
Just remember that in 2017/18 - 62,000 Americans died from the flu. And America got along just fine.

This overlooks a few things. Covid19 is more contagious than Spanish Flu and Spanish Flu occurred when there was very little international travel. Travel has now been more or less halted but the horse is out of the stable.
As for projected total deaths, the US is looking at way more than 100K if one goes by what most authorities on immunology, virology and bio-preparedness say. Sadly we live in an age where many people think they know better than people who have dedicated their professional lives to a particular field of expertise.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on March 16, 2020, 06:07:59 pm
Quote
The death rate is for those who get the virus.
Even way back after WW1, the Spanish Flu only affected about 1/4 of the world. Today, it obviously is much easier to shelter people.
 There is no way 25% of Americans are going to get the virus.
Also, the death rate for people under 40 is about 0.2% (assuming no other circumstances like severe asthma). That means if you are under 40 and relatively healthy and you get COVID-19. The odds of you dying are about 500:1 against.
 There is no way America will lose anywhere near even 100,000 people.
And if that number sounds unimaginable?
Just remember that in 2017/18 - 62,000 Americans died from the flu. And America got along just fine.

This overlooks a few things. Covid19 is more contagious than Spanish Flu and Spanish Flu occurred when there was very little international travel. Travel has now been more or less halted but the horse is out of the stable.
As for projected total deaths, the US is looking at way more than 100K if one goes by what most authorities on immunology, virology and bio-preparedness say. Sadly we live in an age where many people think they know better than people who have dedicated their professional lives to a particular field of expertise.

Ummm...I don't think you know what you are talking about.
1) where is your link that says that COVID-19 is more contagious than the Spanish Flu? I have seen nothing that compares the two.
2) when the Spanish Flu occurred - there was TREMENDOUS travel as WW1 was winding down and all the millions of men who got the virus in the trenches were then send home to spread it throughout the world.
3) the death rate among everyone relatively healthy under 50 is incredibly small:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
 4) China has four times as many people as America plus it started there. But it has slowed WAY down there now and they have only 3,200+ deaths.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/
Unless America completely fucks up how it handles COVID-19 - there is NO WAY the death rate will get remotely near 100,000. I doubt it will even get to 5,000.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on March 17, 2020, 01:14:31 am
Quote
The death rate is for those who get the virus.
Even way back after WW1, the Spanish Flu only affected about 1/4 of the world. Today, it obviously is much easier to shelter people.
 There is no way 25% of Americans are going to get the virus.
Also, the death rate for people under 40 is about 0.2% (assuming no other circumstances like severe asthma). That means if you are under 40 and relatively healthy and you get COVID-19. The odds of you dying are about 500:1 against.
 There is no way America will lose anywhere near even 100,000 people.
And if that number sounds unimaginable?
Just remember that in 2017/18 - 62,000 Americans died from the flu. And America got along just fine.


This overlooks a few things. Covid19 is more contagious than Spanish Flu and Spanish Flu occurred when there was very little international travel. Travel has now been more or less halted but the horse is out of the stable.
As for projected total deaths, the US is looking at way more than 100K if one goes by what most authorities on immunology, virology and bio-preparedness say. Sadly we live in an age where many people think they know better than people who have dedicated their professional lives to a particular field of expertise.

Ummm...I don't think you know what you are talking about.
1) where is your link that says that COVID-19 is more contagious than the Spanish Flu? I have seen nothing that compares the two.
2) when the Spanish Flu occurred - there was TREMENDOUS travel as WW1 was winding down and all the millions of men who got the virus in the trenches were then send home to spread it throughout the world.
3) the death rate among everyone relatively healthy under 50 is incredibly small:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
 4) China has four times as many people as America plus it started there. But it has slowed WAY down there now and they have only 3,200+ deaths.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/
Unless America completely fucks up how it handles COVID-19 - there is NO WAY the death rate will get remotely near 100,000. I doubt it will even get to 5,000.


We don't know if it's slowed down in China. And if it is slowing, it's because China is MUCH more aggressive with it than we are. (Your temperature is taken when you enter and exit public places, and if you have even a slight fever, you're sent to a 'fever clinic, where you're tested. If negative you go your way, if positive, you're quarantined. No self quarantine once you're diagnosed.)Our problem is we haven't taken it as seriously as we should. So long as  the US isn't  testing, no one knows what you're up against.  So as it stands right now, America is fucking this up royally.  Testing should've started a month ago, if not sooner. The WHO offered tests, but the trump administration declined. Leaders refuse to listen to experts, and are even going so far as trying to muzzle experts, whose transparency is crucial to handling situations like this. (If you can't trust the only people who can properly combat it, you're doomed.) Politicians are in charge of the response. Politicians whose only focus is protecting their position. Under normal conditions, I'd agree with you that the US could control the rate and the casualties, but the fact is where the US now is where S. Korea was two weeks ago. The difference being S. Korea is testing more people in a week than we've tested from the outset, so they're getting a handle on it. God only knows what it's going to be like as it escalates in the US. The tests are crucial. As is leadership having a consistent message. The president can't be claiming it's a hoax on fox news and then going to a press briefing with his response team, trying to act as if he's serious. And he HAS to denounce the people who are disseminating conspiracy theories and outright lies.  And lastly, someone has to simply go on television and tell people hording toilet paper or any other commodity is only going to make matters worse. America needs leaders who inspire people to think of each other instead of just themselves. Good luck with that.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on March 17, 2020, 08:53:00 am
Quote
The death rate is for those who get the virus.
Even way back after WW1, the Spanish Flu only affected about 1/4 of the world. Today, it obviously is much easier to shelter people.
 There is no way 25% of Americans are going to get the virus.
Also, the death rate for people under 40 is about 0.2% (assuming no other circumstances like severe asthma). That means if you are under 40 and relatively healthy and you get COVID-19. The odds of you dying are about 500:1 against.
 There is no way America will lose anywhere near even 100,000 people.
And if that number sounds unimaginable?
Just remember that in 2017/18 - 62,000 Americans died from the flu. And America got along just fine.


This overlooks a few things. Covid19 is more contagious than Spanish Flu and Spanish Flu occurred when there was very little international travel. Travel has now been more or less halted but the horse is out of the stable.
As for projected total deaths, the US is looking at way more than 100K if one goes by what most authorities on immunology, virology and bio-preparedness say. Sadly we live in an age where many people think they know better than people who have dedicated their professional lives to a particular field of expertise.

Ummm...I don't think you know what you are talking about.
1) where is your link that says that COVID-19 is more contagious than the Spanish Flu? I have seen nothing that compares the two.
2) when the Spanish Flu occurred - there was TREMENDOUS travel as WW1 was winding down and all the millions of men who got the virus in the trenches were then send home to spread it throughout the world.
3) the death rate among everyone relatively healthy under 50 is incredibly small:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
 4) China has four times as many people as America plus it started there. But it has slowed WAY down there now and they have only 3,200+ deaths.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/
Unless America completely fucks up how it handles COVID-19 - there is NO WAY the death rate will get remotely near 100,000. I doubt it will even get to 5,000.


We don't know if it's slowed down in China. And if it is slowing, it's because China is MUCH more aggressive with it than we are. (Your temperature is taken when you enter and exit public places, and if you have even a slight fever, you're sent to a 'fever clinic, where you're tested. If negative you go your way, if positive, you're quarantined. No self quarantine once you're diagnosed.)Our problem is we haven't taken it as seriously as we should. So long as  the US isn't  testing, no one knows what you're up against.  So as it stands right now, America is fucking this up royally.  Testing should've started a month ago, if not sooner. The WHO offered tests, but the trump administration declined. Leaders refuse to listen to experts, and are even going so far as trying to muzzle experts, whose transparency is crucial to handling situations like this. (If you can't trust the only people who can properly combat it, you're doomed.) Politicians are in charge of the response. Politicians whose only focus is protecting their position. Under normal conditions, I'd agree with you that the US could control the rate and the casualties, but the fact is where the US now is where S. Korea was two weeks ago. The difference being S. Korea is testing more people in a week than we've tested from the outset, so they're getting a handle on it. God only knows what it's going to be like as it escalates in the US. The tests are crucial. As is leadership having a consistent message. The president can't be claiming it's a hoax on fox news and then going to a press briefing with his response team, trying to act as if he's serious. And he HAS to denounce the people who are disseminating conspiracy theories and outright lies.  And lastly, someone has to simply go on television and tell people hording toilet paper or any other commodity is only going to make matters worse. America needs leaders who inspire people to think of each other instead of just themselves. Good luck with that.
China has been straight up the whole time about their numbers (especially once they realized they could not contain the outbreak easily) - why would they stop now? Even the WHO agrees their numbers seem right. And considering they basically forced everyone in the affected regions to stay home - it makes sense that the numbers are way down.
Also, it's slowing down in South Korea as well.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-korea/

But you are right, the western governments have REALLY dropped the ball on this. I despise big government. But this is one time where big government is EXACTLY what we need.
 The government should immediately do what they did in San Francisco yesterday - force everyone to stay home except for essentials. And close every business except for essentials (pharmacies and grocery stores).
 
But I disagree that testing is crucial. What is testing going to do? You cannot test everyone. And if you test someone who has symptoms - it's too late...they have already spread it around to dozens of others probably.
And LOTS of people with COVID-19 are asymptomatic/have minimal symptoms - so they have no idea they even have it to be tested for it...but are spreading the virus around anyway.
 Remember if someone has COVID-19 and touches a door handles, that door handle will be 'infected' for at least 24 hours (depending on what it is made of) to everyone whom touches it.

Locking down everyone is the ONLY way to guarantee stopping COVID-19.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on March 17, 2020, 06:06:42 pm

Locking down everyone is the ONLY way to guarantee stopping COVID-19.

You can't stop it with this, but you can slow it down.
Of course you can stop it with this. That is exactly what China did and it has worked exceedingly well. their total number of cases has been drastically cut.
 I am not saying I agree or disagree with the policy personally.
But if ending COVID-19 as quickly as possible is the goal - the fastest and most effective way to do it is lock everyone and everything not important down tight.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 1angryscot on March 17, 2020, 11:53:40 pm

Locking down everyone is the ONLY way to guarantee stopping COVID-19.

You can't stop it with this, but you can slow it down.
Quote
The death rate is for those who get the virus.
Even way back after WW1, the Spanish Flu only affected about 1/4 of the world. Today, it obviously is much easier to shelter people.
 There is no way 25% of Americans are going to get the virus.
Also, the death rate for people under 40 is about 0.2% (assuming no other circumstances like severe asthma). That means if you are under 40 and relatively healthy and you get COVID-19. The odds of you dying are about 500:1 against.
 There is no way America will lose anywhere near even 100,000 people.
And if that number sounds unimaginable?
Just remember that in 2017/18 - 62,000 Americans died from the flu. And America got along just fine.


This overlooks a few things. Covid19 is more contagious than Spanish Flu and Spanish Flu occurred when there was very little international travel. Travel has now been more or less halted but the horse is out of the stable.
As for projected total deaths, the US is looking at way more than 100K if one goes by what most authorities on immunology, virology and bio-preparedness say. Sadly we live in an age where many people think they know better than people who have dedicated their professional lives to a particular field of expertise.

Ummm...I don't think you know what you are talking about.
1) where is your link that says that COVID-19 is more contagious than the Spanish Flu? I have seen nothing that compares the two.
2) when the Spanish Flu occurred - there was TREMENDOUS travel as WW1 was winding down and all the millions of men who got the virus in the trenches were then send home to spread it throughout the world.
3) the death rate among everyone relatively healthy under 50 is incredibly small:
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
 4) China has four times as many people as America plus it started there. But it has slowed WAY down there now and they have only 3,200+ deaths.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/china/
Unless America completely fucks up how it handles COVID-19 - there is NO WAY the death rate will get remotely near 100,000. I doubt it will even get to 5,000.


We don't know if it's slowed down in China. And if it is slowing, it's because China is MUCH more aggressive with it than we are. (Your temperature is taken when you enter and exit public places, and if you have even a slight fever, you're sent to a 'fever clinic, where you're tested. If negative you go your way, if positive, you're quarantined. No self quarantine once you're diagnosed.)Our problem is we haven't taken it as seriously as we should. So long as  the US isn't  testing, no one knows what you're up against.  So as it stands right now, America is fucking this up royally.  Testing should've started a month ago, if not sooner. The WHO offered tests, but the trump administration declined. Leaders refuse to listen to experts, and are even going so far as trying to muzzle experts, whose transparency is crucial to handling situations like this. (If you can't trust the only people who can properly combat it, you're doomed.) Politicians are in charge of the response. Politicians whose only focus is protecting their position. Under normal conditions, I'd agree with you that the US could control the rate and the casualties, but the fact is where the US now is where S. Korea was two weeks ago. The difference being S. Korea is testing more people in a week than we've tested from the outset, so they're getting a handle on it. God only knows what it's going to be like as it escalates in the US. The tests are crucial. As is leadership having a consistent message. The president can't be claiming it's a hoax on fox news and then going to a press briefing with his response team, trying to act as if he's serious. And he HAS to denounce the people who are disseminating conspiracy theories and outright lies.  And lastly, someone has to simply go on television and tell people hording toilet paper or any other commodity is only going to make matters worse. America needs leaders who inspire people to think of each other instead of just themselves. Good luck with that.
China has been straight up the whole time about their numbers - why would they stop now? Even the WHO agrees their numbers seem right. And considering they basically forced everyone in the affected regions to stay home - it makes sense that the numbers are way down.
Also, it's slowing down in South Korea as well.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-korea/

But you are right, the western governments have REALLY dropped the ball on this. I despise big government. But this is one time where big government is EXACTLY what we need.
 The government should immediately do what they did in San Francisco yesterday - force everyone to stay home except for essentials. And close every business except for essentials (pharmacies and grocery stores).
 
But I disagree that testing is crucial. What is testing going to do? You cannot test everyone. And if you test someone who has symptoms - it's too late...they have already spread it around to dozens of others probably.
And LOTS of people with COVID-19 are asymptomatic/have minimal symptoms - so they have no idea they even have it to be tested for it...but are spreading the virus around anyway.
 Remember if someone has COVID-19 and touches a door handles, that door handle will be 'infected' for at least 24 hours (depending on what it is made of) to everyone whom touches it.

Locking down everyone is the ONLY way to guarantee stopping COVID-19.

"China has been straight up the whole time about their numbers." Are you fucking kidding me?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on March 18, 2020, 11:11:44 am
Are you fucking kidding me?
So my ENTIRE post about a virus that is killing thousands...and all you thought to question was that sentence. Shit man - try and remember the subject here...people dying. What's next? A problem with syntax? Spelling?
Look, maybe I exaggerated a bit. And I do NOT trust the Chinese government. But okay - where is your link to unbiased, factual proof that the numbers coming out of China are wrong. Not guesses or assumptions...factual proof?
Go ahead - please enlighten us all with your vast knowledge on this.

🤦‍♂️

But the point of the whole thread is COVID-19.
And I am saying that shutting down everything - like China did - works.
And the WHO agrees.
'The World Health Organization (WHO) said Tuesday that measures to restrict people's movement in China amid the COVID-19 outbreak are a correct strategic and tactical approach, and WHO would like to see progressive implementation of public health measures.'
http://www.ecns.cn/news/2020-02-19/detail-ifztrmvi9826654.shtml

Or do you know more than the WHO on this?

Plus, Singapore and South Korea are doing similarly and they are also seeing new case reductions.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-korea/
Or is South Korea lying as well?
🤦‍♂️
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on March 18, 2020, 07:05:01 pm
Initially in January the identification rate of Corona infected was 14%. They increased it to 60%. 40% still go unidentified. And this are based on numbers from China.

You can't stop it. You can only slow it down.

And your link to these statistics is.... (I am not saying they are wrong - I would just like to see them myself)?

Of course you can stop it.
If everyone is locked down in their homes - how can the virus spread? It doesn't penetrate walls.

Bill Ackman is DEAD right about this, IMO:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/18/bill-ackman-pleads-to-trump-to-increase-closures-to-save-the-economy-shut-it-down-now.html
America - and the world - has to go into lockdown mode NOW.
The faster they do that - like they did in China - the faster this thing will peak and slowly go away.
Half measures - like they are using now - does nothing but panic everyone and drag out the crisis.
The DOW is down over 2,000 points again today - so far (despite GIGANTIC stimuli from government/the Fed).
Half measures do NOTHING.
Full lockdown is required.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on March 19, 2020, 02:25:53 am
The bottom line is it would be difficult if not impossible to implement the things they do in China right now. Imagine this: A farmer from rural Missouri goes to his local town to buy supplies. As he tries to enter a store, there's a guy in protective gear, insisting to take his temperature. Yeah, that's going to go real well. And should a minor miracle ensue and the farmer agrees to have his temperature taken, heaven forbid he has a fever, and they try to send him to a 'fever clinic' to be tested. And if, by some damned miracle, you get him to go to the fever clinic, and he tests positive, what do you think are the chances he'll go AND STAY in a 'quarantine hotel' until he's well?

What I just chronicled is what they do in China. The measures were easy to implement  there because 1. They went through this before with SARS, and 2. They're used to being treated this way. Americans? Not so much. There are Americans throwing hissy fits every ten years, because  they think the government is snooping on them via the Census. A guy in Virginia drove his car into a crowd, killing a woman, because the government was taking a statue down. There are Americans who are ready and willing to literally go to war with their state government, because of laws requiring their children to be vaccinated. How do you think rural America would react to being sent to quarantine hotels?  Moreover, the aluminum foil beanie conspiracy theorists would have a field day, claiming all sorts of things. You think it's chaotic in the US now, let's just see what a mandated lockdown would look like.

There was a reason President Obama provided a seat at the National Security Council table for infectious disease control, and there's a reason that up until very recently, the CDC and NIH had international operations all over the world. American leaders with an ounce of foresight realize the problem isn't a pandemic as much as it's trying to deal with that pandemic in a society that insists on freedom at all costs. So the trick  up to now has been to try to prevent the outbreak from reaching you.  Unfortunately, that ship has already sailed.

I'm in Europe right now, and I'm lucky, because my job allows a modicum of 'freedom.' I dare say most Americans wouldn't think of this as freedom at all.  And everywhere I go, I find myself constantly thinking, "There's no goddamned way Americans would go for this."

I have news for you: Americans are gonna have to. America's on a trajectory for untold thousands if not millions of people getting this virus.The US government botched this from the outset, they continue to botch it and the cost for all that botching is going to be steep.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: booberman46 on March 19, 2020, 03:23:30 am
i'm in Australia and we are not on lock-down yet thank god we have a bit over 500 cases of people that have contracted the virus and less than 30 people who have died from it. we have stopped all international flights from leaving and coming in to the contry and our government has told us that we can not host a gathering of more than100 people with in a closed up area and no more than 500 people in a open area. so far it seems to be working
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: wendyk on March 19, 2020, 11:12:46 am
The conspiracy theorist is me notes how China lost a few thousand citizens and infected every major democracy following a clamp down on their own soil. Trillions more wiped out from their sanctioning enemies, while they reopen stores.

Fiction or fact as it may be there are 3 truths I hope the world never forgets:

1) This virus, like many before it, came from China. Western scientists confirm this as they have with SARs, Swine Flu etc.

2) China should never have been allowed to permeate so far into world markets. Our greed for profit did this.

3) The world is paying for cost its own complacency i.e. a lack of a coordinated pandemic protocol has left us vulnerable.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Indy on March 19, 2020, 12:56:48 pm
While I was ZERO attacking you, the moderators or owners removed my reply to you as it contained an answer they don't want to see published. So forget it.

You were voicing your discontent about  a staff decision (https://theperfectboobs.net/index.php?topic=40713.0) openly. While the rest of the post was fine, the post has been removed.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: chevychase1 on March 19, 2020, 10:41:54 pm
Now, as well as my 72-year-old parents not taking this seriously, my 80-year-old next-door neighbour isn't taking it seriously.

The Prime Minister's 79-year-old dad has been on the TV, and he isn't taking it seriously. I despair.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on March 20, 2020, 01:10:28 am
Now, as well as my 72-year-old parents not taking this seriously, my 80-year-old next-door neighbour isn't taking it seriously.

The Prime Minister's 79-year-old dad has been on the TV, and he isn't taking it seriously. I despair.

Denial is hard to combat. People look at this the way they look at Climate Change. I don't see it because it's cold where I am, so that means it isn't happening. Likewise, if you haven't seen someone with it near you, you're going to conclude it isn't happening. Viral pneumonia, which is essentially what COVID-19 is an ugly ailment with long-term effects. You never get full lung function back. So I'm going to listen to smart people, like those at the WHO, who KNOW. Not those who are making conjecture, and doing the equivalent of rubbing a rabbit's foot.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: TickleTheo on March 20, 2020, 08:38:24 am
The problem for most people is they mostly lack either the connections to ask actual medical professionals for their opinion or these days. Purely obtaining news from the headlines instead of distilling what those headlines actually mean.

I mean, every medical professional I know or keep up with were concerned with COVID-19 early on. Yet the majority of the news media stayed focus on "the numbers" instead of understanding what the numbers actually meant. So instead of preparing for the coming storm or the warnings of what worse case scenarios would look like. The media kept downplaying the issue until it became a much bigger problem than it should be.

Notice how one side of the media continually pushes blaming "China" for this? People can't seem to understand that blaming China doesn't do anything aside from push anger onto a country that actually is getting their pandemic under control. The other side of the media points how unprepared we are and how 2 months of lead time resulted in nothing happening till now.

People have a hard time blaming a strand of RNA that they can't see with their own eyes.

What needs to happen is the government actually doing its freaking job and assisting the people that it is supposed to be serving instead of passing responsibility or the blame.

The best thing the general public can do at the moment is to have as much of the populace avoid contracting COVID-19 all at once.  Once hospitals hit capacity, the doctors will be starting to decide who lives/dies based on the likelihood of survival. This is what is happening in Italy now and what was happening in China months ago. So the older you are, the higher chance you get passed over for a younger patient.

The more people can slow the rate of infection over the coming months will decide how many dead we bury at the end of all this.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: chevychase1 on March 24, 2020, 03:55:40 pm
Still, most people are taking fucking liberties around where I live.

Stupid bastards.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: KwukDuck on March 24, 2020, 09:07:46 pm
Months in, it's become horrifyingly clear how contagious and dangerous this virus is, the economy is collapsing, our social structures falling apart and there's still a lot of people that complain how this is all a hoax or over-hyped or claim it's just a political agenda. Ignoring emergency regulations and neglecting their own responsibility.

I'm convinced that we are still, in these stages of social distancing and (semi)lock downs, highly underestimating both the virus and the impact it will have on our economy and society. The worst is yet to come, and we'll be stuck with this for at least months to come, or so i predict.

To all these "nay-sayers" and conspiracy nuts, if you want to get infected, suffer from severe pneumonia and take a 50/50 to die, that's up to you, when you're consciously endangering others you're an inexcusable fucking moron. Get your shit together and bring good evidence if you want to talk.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Indy on March 24, 2020, 09:34:34 pm
A little update on our end:

My gf and I have put ourselves in self-isolation because our jobs allow us to, not leaving the house unless for groceries, and when we do groceries, it's at a time when nobody's there, and we take 2 full carts, so we only have to go once every 2 weeks or so. Not seeing anybody, except for my parents, who do exactly the same, they're just retired and locked themselves down as well. We visit them every other day to keep eachother company. Since neither us or them visit anyone, haven't shown any symptoms and haven't done so for 3 weeks, it's relatively safe to say that we can at least see eachother.
We've got a little (private) party-bar that's not being used now for obvious reasons, so we've just finished converting it to a little fitness room so we can still be active and distract ourselves a little.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: chevychase1 on March 25, 2020, 12:26:46 am
A little update on our end:

My gf and I have put ourselves in self-isolation because our jobs allow us to, not leaving the house unless for groceries, and when we do groceries, it's at a time when nobody's there, and we take 2 full carts, so we only have to go once every 2 weeks or so. Not seeing anybody, except for my parents, who do exactly the same, they're just retired and locked themselves down as well. We visit them every other day to keep eachother company. Since neither us or them visit anyone, haven't shown any symptoms and haven't done so for 3 weeks, it's relatively safe to say that we can at least see eachother.
We've got a little (private) party-bar that's not being used now for obvious reasons, so we've just finished converting it to a little fitness room so we can still be active and distract ourselves a little.

That's how it should be done, for those who can do it that way.

It's not being taken seriously in Britain at all.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: dajkam on March 25, 2020, 01:27:34 am
A little update on our end:

My gf and I have put ourselves in self-isolation because our jobs allow us to, not leaving the house unless for groceries, and when we do groceries, it's at a time when nobody's there, and we take 2 full carts, so we only have to go once every 2 weeks or so. Not seeing anybody, except for my parents, who do exactly the same, they're just retired and locked themselves down as well. We visit them every other day to keep eachother company. Since neither us or them visit anyone, haven't shown any symptoms and haven't done so for 3 weeks, it's relatively safe to say that we can at least see eachother.
We've got a little (private) party-bar that's not being used now for obvious reasons, so we've just finished converting it to a little fitness room so we can still be active and distract ourselves a little.

That's how it should be done, for those who can do it that way.

It's not being taken seriously in Britain at all.
Don't get crazy. The economics suffer most at the end => there will be no boob jobs in the upcomming year :(
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: bangthebox on March 29, 2020, 07:05:45 pm
1) This virus, like many before it, came from China. Western scientists confirm this as they have with SARs, Swine Flu etc.

2) China should never have been allowed to permeate so far into world markets. Our greed for profit did this.

How can you single out China? The world is very interconnected, if the virus arose in any western country it would spread just as quickly Even Ebola which came out of a place that is on the edges of the world economy and is much less infectious than the coronavirus managed to spread to the United States. And since China is the most populated country and one of the most connected there's just more chance of the virus arising there. I don't remember people blaming Egypt for MERS.

I guess as far as this site is concerned it is annoying how women will have to put off procedures until it's over and there will be very little professional content produced.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: KwukDuck on March 30, 2020, 02:59:46 am
I think we got really lucky this time around... Imagine if MERS had been as contagious as this one... O_o
A matter of /when/, not /if/. Hopefully we learn from this.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: dajkam on March 30, 2020, 03:06:32 am
Free not to answer but Does anyone know someone who is infected?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on March 30, 2020, 03:16:09 am
Look at the curves of Italy, Spain and the US. They're identical, only the US is anywhere from two to four weeks behind Italy and Spain. Now, the major differences are 1. Spain and Italy are testing MASSIVELY. 2. Spain and Italy are locked down COMPLETELY. It doesn't matter if there are few confirmed cases where you are, you're locked down. and most importantly, 3. The leaders take it seriously, and the people who are heading the pandemic control efforts are experts, not politicians. Leaders there don't grandstand and demand praise at every turn. They work in close cooperation.

Hence, while Italy and Spain are starting to see the curve flattening a bit, the US is headed for catastrophe. I just say trump is saying he wants to end restrictions by end of April? If this remains true to form, that should be just about the time that the outbreak in the US is at its absolute worst.

I say this apolitically. The numbers don't lie. The train wreck that's headed America's way is epic.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on March 30, 2020, 03:18:38 am
Free not to answer but Does anyone know someone who is infected?

I'm in Spain. My girlfriend's aunt was just released from the hospital. A number of people in my apartment building have tested positive, but have mostly mild symptoms. I've tested negative twice. I'm lucky
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: dajkam on March 30, 2020, 10:06:17 am
In my province there is like only 22 people infected out of like 6 milion I'm from Poland. The aitude of the people and the outthorietes is mental. Every 1h a loud comunicate(asking people to stay home) is being played.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: nhb2007noo on March 31, 2020, 03:29:05 am
The idea that this is a Chinese disease is so profoundly not helpful. Aside from its obviously xenophobic suggestion, there's the additional problem that it may not be true.

Evidently, there were numerous cases of strange pneumonia spreading in Italy in November. It is perhaps exactly the same strange pneumonia that the Chinese helpfully named and sequenced.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3076334/coronavirus-strange-pneumonia-seen-lombardy-november-leading
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: chevychase1 on April 02, 2020, 05:27:42 pm
My sister's next-door neighbour hanged himself two nights ago. It was thought to be over the catastrophic damage that the virus has done to his financial situation.

His wife found him and got help. Then the ambulance turned up. No word as to whether or not he is dead.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on April 03, 2020, 02:54:54 am
The idea that this is a Chinese disease is so profoundly not helpful. Aside from its obviously xenophobic suggestion, there's the additional problem that it may not be true.

Evidently, there were numerous cases of strange pneumonia spreading in Italy in November. It is perhaps exactly the same strange pneumonia that the Chinese helpfully named and sequenced.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3076334/coronavirus-strange-pneumonia-seen-lombardy-november-leading

What makes this especially harmful is politicians are wasting time with trying to assign blame; with some going so far as to demand investigations. I think the government has MUCH better things to do right now than to concentrate on assigning blame. So you blame China, how many lives will that save? How many people will be protected from infection?  There will be plenty of time later to sort out who did what. Let's concentrate on this problem now.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: snooch81 on April 03, 2020, 09:41:07 am
Free not to answer but Does anyone know someone who is infected?

The closest thing I know of is the husband of a colleague of mine. But since they live in Munich and our office is in Switzerland we were not affected. And luckily they are fine and the mandatory quarantine ended this Monday.

Otherwise our complete office has been in home office for a month now. The only eerie thing is that, every time since the outbreak I see a ambulance with sirens on every time I leave the house. Usually I would encounter an ambulance once every 90 days or so.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: dajkam on April 03, 2020, 11:06:09 am
My sister's next-door neighbour hanged himself two nights ago. It was thought to be over the catastrophic damage that the virus has done to his financial situation.

His wife found him and got help. Then the ambulance turned up. No word as to whether or not he is dead.
I feel very sorry for his famillby. He was a real casualty of coronavirus. If there only was a way to keep new infections low and in the keep everything running. The loses for the economy wuld be much greater then those caused by the virus.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: MidnightBoobies on April 03, 2020, 04:22:26 pm
Free not to answer but Does anyone know someone who is infected?


I know a few:
Friends uncle and nephew, one co-worker self quarantined himself about 2 weeks ago,another co-workers girlfriend. I just found out about the girlfriend last night, saying how pissed i am right now that he didn't talk about it and risk everyone at the job is an understatement.



Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Wabill on April 04, 2020, 03:09:35 am
We live in Western Australia and now have closed our borders, all restaurants, most shops other than essential services such as food , fuel and chemists.

All elective surgery was stopped and this means no more cosmetic procedures in the foreseeable future.

I feel for the women who had boob jobs booked that they had saved up for, booked sometimes months in advance with right surgeon to do it for them. Only to be cancelled for probably 6 months or more.

For many women they or their partner who have now lost their jobs or had hours reduced - those savings will be needed elsewhere in their lives.

The specialist breast surgeons will see a downturn too , maybe leading to them laying off staff in their private clinics.
Some will take a 6 month holiday or work in other areas of healthcare.

So as a Boob Job orientated site we will see a year possibly longer where no new talent emerges as the worlds economy recovers.

I dont mean to down play other aspects of the Covid19 virus in our lives but it will severely impact on our lives in many ways long after the crisis has passed.

I did ponder if a woman with deflated implant would be considered a special case for repair or replacement or will she have to live with it till this passes.
Not a pleasant prospect for many women.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: chevychase1 on April 06, 2020, 10:10:09 pm
Boris Johnson has gone into intensive care.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: dajkam on April 07, 2020, 12:12:12 am
Boris Johnson has gone into intensive care.
Haven't he said that he would like as many people as possible to be infected? To gain immunity?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on April 07, 2020, 02:37:40 am
Boris Johnson has gone into intensive care.
Haven't he said that he would like as many people as possible to be infected? To gain immunity?

Ignorance abounds. A friend of our family is a pharmacist, who works for a national chain in the US. She said she doesn't mind being exposed because she's helping people, but it irks her to no end that some people are risking their lives and hers to buy make-up, candy and soda. I guess we all have different ideas to what's essential.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: chevychase1 on April 12, 2020, 11:20:49 am
Boris Johnson has gone into intensive care.
Haven't he said that he would like as many people as possible to be infected? To gain immunity?

Ignorance abounds. A friend of our family is a pharmacist, who works for a national chain in the US. She said she doesn't mind being exposed because she's helping people, but it irks her to no end that some people are risking their lives and hers to buy make-up, candy and soda. I guess we all have different ideas to what's essential.

Yeah. That was the government's original idea. But that quickly changed after many scientists strongly disagreed.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 07, 2020, 04:19:59 am
Boris Johnson has gone into intensive care.
Haven't he said that he would like as many people as possible to be infected? To gain immunity?

Ignorance abounds. A friend of our family is a pharmacist, who works for a national chain in the US. She said she doesn't mind being exposed because she's helping people, but it irks her to no end that some people are risking their lives and hers to buy make-up, candy and soda. I guess we all have different ideas to what's essential.
No one is risking anyone's lives.
COVID-19 has been GALACTICALLY overblown.
Not maybe - 100% for certain.
Look at this link to New York State COVID-19 deaths:
https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/NYSDOHCOVID-19Tracker-Fatalities?%3Aembed=yes&%3Atoolbar=no&%3Atabs=n
It clearly shows that almost 90+% of people whom die of COVID-19 had at least one, serious health issue (and this list does not include 'weakened immune systems' - so add more).
And look at the ages?
 Almost 85% of those who died were old farts - over 60. And almost no one under 20 died of it.
 And these numbers are the same all over the world.
COVID-19 is NOTHING but some overblown virus that virtually kills ONLY weak, old people.
Here is more:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/25/two-thirds-patients-die-coronavirus-would-have-died-year-anyway/
This is from that HUGE big shot in the UK. And even he admits that at least 2/3 of people who will die of COVID-19 were going to die this year anyway.
 There is no reason WHATSOEVER to shutdown the economy over this - NONE. And these statistics were known to governments months ago.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30243-7/fulltext  Go to Table 1
https://www.globalresearch.ca/mit-tech-review-smears-study-proving-covid-19-overhyped/5710088
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says
https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/phac-aspc/documents/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/surv-covid19-epi-update-eng.pdf  Go to Table 5

And I can show LOTS more links that back up what I am saying. If the ignorant masses (not saying you are one of them) would stop blindly believing whatever the MSM and the government tells them and do just a little research themselves...they could have seen the truth long ago.

All the government's should have done was warn those people with serious health issues to self-quarantine, give them some money if they need it and let everyone else lead normal lives.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: punternet on May 07, 2020, 10:42:22 am
if this is true and Covid 19 is as "GALACTICALLY overblown" as you say then death rates per capita of ALL causes should be around the same, no?

After all, if the disease isn't doing much damage then we wouldn't expect to see many more people dying than usual, right?

But the data says the opposite.
In the UK, for example, in Week 14 of the year, the total was 6,082 deaths (or 59%) above the average for that week of the year. Week 15’s total was 7,996 (76%) above average. In Week 16, it was 11,854 above, or 113%.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but how do you reconcile these death figures with your finding that this is overblown?

(source: https://fullfact.org/health/covid-deaths/)
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: KwukDuck on May 07, 2020, 03:26:32 pm
TL;DR:
We're dealing with a new virus, which we still know very little about. Some small scale research has been done and we're trying to make the best predictions based on ever increasing data and knowledge. Policy will be adjusted according to new insights.
We take these serious measures, to avoid getting totally screwed over by something we have not encountered before in these 'modern' times.
The fine balance of keeping the economy going and keeping our society (including weaker and elderly people) safe is a delicate one.
---



COVID-19 has been GALACTICALLY overblown.
Not maybe - 100% for certain.
There is no reason WHATSOEVER to shutdown the economy over this - NONE. And these statistics were known to governments months ago.

Unless you actually know about genetics and biology, then the picture changes, and you would probably try to be very cautious.
The numbers are what they are because of how we contained it, not because it's 'just just a flu', even if we didn't do a very good job doing so initially.
It's hard to imagine how things would have looked if we hadn't acted, i don't think it'd be a pretty picture.
Our economy was/is a house of cards anyway, this recession (if not depression) was due late anyway, this was just a catalyst. The solutions being implemented right now to keep things ticking, are at the very core of the problem, so even after the pandemic, the economic situation will probably not be very nice for a large portion of the population.
The fraction of asymptomatic infections or those with few symptoms range from little under 30% from Korean, Japanese and Chinese research to about 90% from German research and anything in between. The problem is the scale of this research, samples are way too small and local to get to any useful conclusion, but the media just loves to gobble up this news and present it as spectacular.

Quote
Here is more:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/25/two-thirds-patients-die-coronavirus-would-have-died-year-anyway/
This is from that HUGE big shot in the UK. And even he admits that at least 2/3 of people who will die of COVID-19 were going to die this year anyway.
Did you even read this yourself beyond the headline? It's a lot of "maybe" going on there. This article is a month old and they underestimated the death toll quite a bit by well over 50%. Again, that is WITH the protocols in place. Comorbidity doesn't mean 'they would have died soon anyway', it just means there was an additional condition that compromised their ability to recover.

Quote
And I can show LOTS more links that back up what I am saying. If the ignorant masses (not saying you are one of them) would stop blindly believing whatever the MSM and the government tells them and do just a little research themselves...they could have seen the truth long ago.
Sure you can, it's the internet. I'm sure you can find a reference to corona virus somewhere in one of the Simpsons episode and how they were going to build 5G antennas to spread this humanly engineered virus... Or any other scenario you can imagine really, you can find 'evidence' for it on the internet.
Oh no wait, i like the one with the China bio weapon designed to shut down the US economy more.


Quote
All the government's should have done was warn those people with serious health issues to self-quarantine, give them some money if they need it and let everyone else lead normal lives.
And when should they have done that? As i said before, still at this point after months of pandemic, we're just starting to learn how this thing works.
The response of most of world was questionable to say the least, preventive measures would have saved a lot of drama, instead they chose to prioritize the economy and keep things going for as long as possible.
Well that didn't work out too nicely now did it.
We can barely get on top of it with full lock downs... (yea i know, UK and US are totally not on top of this... but an increasing number of countries are) If you just 'warn the elderly', nobody would take it serious i think, people hardly do already at this moment.

Quote
COVID-19 is NOTHING but some overblown virus that virtually kills ONLY weak, old people.
It is fatal MAINLY in elderly and people with underlying conditions, NOT only.
The protocols in place are not to protect you, the strong alpha male that can withstand any virus, illness or injury! Or is it...?
It is to protect the weak in our society and our health care system and everybody working in it. Then non-covid issues all of a sudden become indirect covid issues.

Alright, time to take off the tin-foil hat, put your confirmation bias back into the closet, do some science.
We are still applying 'old' methods to treat covid patients, there are countless reports of inconsistent symptoms and reactions to treatment. We are still far from understanding this thing and having a consensus on how to best classify and treat it. I would vouch for treating carefully and try to learn as much as we can without totally overwhelming the medical system. We're just trying to establish 'controlled conditions' so to say. Proceed from there.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: KwukDuck on May 07, 2020, 03:31:13 pm
So how does the desinfectants work for the US members or the light therapy? I mean the president says it, so it must be true and work.

I am pretty sure someone of his staff members mentioned to him MMS or similar and might be even involved in selling this dangerous idiotic stuff to earn money with it and he couldn't resist and blurted it out.

How this guy hasn't been impeached is beyond me...
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Inconspicuous on May 07, 2020, 04:22:25 pm
So how does the desinfectants work for the US members or the light therapy? I mean the president says it, so it must be true and work.

I am pretty sure someone of his staff members mentioned to him MMS or similar and might be even involved in selling this dangerous idiotic stuff to earn money with it and he couldn't resist and blurted it out.

How this guy hasn't been impeached is beyond me...

......he has been impeached.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 07, 2020, 05:41:02 pm
if this is true and Covid 19 is as "GALACTICALLY overblown" as you say then death rates per capita of ALL causes should be around the same, no?

After all, if the disease isn't doing much damage then we wouldn't expect to see many more people dying than usual, right?

But the data says the opposite.
In the UK, for example, in Week 14 of the year, the total was 6,082 deaths (or 59%) above the average for that week of the year. Week 15’s total was 7,996 (76%) above average. In Week 16, it was 11,854 above, or 113%.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but how do you reconcile these death figures with your finding that this is overblown?

(source: https://fullfact.org/health/covid-deaths/)
Well, I did not say COVID-19 was not killing anyone.
I said that virtually the only people it was killing are people who are old and sick...and ALL the statistics from country after country confirm that (see my links above)
 Even the top Brit guy on this agrees with me on that - in my link above.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 07, 2020, 06:28:58 pm

1)The numbers are what they are because of how we contained it, not because it's 'just just a flu', even if we didn't do a very good job doing so initially.
2)It's hard to imagine how things would have looked if we hadn't acted, i don't think it'd be a pretty picture.



3)Did you even read this yourself beyond the headline? It's a lot of "maybe" going on there. This article is a month old and they underestimated the death toll quite a bit by well over 50%. Again, that is WITH the protocols in place. Comorbidity doesn't mean 'they would have died soon anyway', it just means there was an additional condition that compromised their ability to recover.


4)Sure you can, it's the internet.



5)It is fatal MAINLY in elderly and people with underlying conditions, NOT only.
6)The protocols in place are not to protect you, the strong alpha male that can withstand any virus, illness or injury! Or is it...?
It is to protect the weak in our society and our health care system and everybody working in it. Then non-covid issues all of a sudden become indirect covid issues.


I don't know how you do all this multi-'quote' shit. So I will answer your statements that I have numbered.

1) With respect, wrong. The numbers are EXACTLY the same (in terms of who is mostly dying) in Sweden and the 7/8 US states (like Iowa) that did NOT lock down their population compared to locations that did. EXACTLY.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

2) Wrong - it's easy to imagine. Just look at Sweden. They did NOT lockdown and their death rate is lower than the UK's, France's and Italy's...who ALL did lock down.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

3) the rest of the article was irrelevant. The point was that THE guy in the UK said that 2/3 of COVID-19 deaths were to people who would have died within a year anyway. And I am positive he knows a HELL of a lot more about it then you (or I) do.
 He should - it was his words that were the main cause of all the panic in the UK.

4) Are you saying the official government statistics of New York State and Canada are erroneous? Yes or No, please?

https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/NYSDOHCOVID-19Tracker-Fatalities?%3Aembed=yes&%3Atoolbar=no&%3Atabs=n
https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/phac-aspc/documents/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/surv-covid19-epi-update-eng.pdf   Table 5

5) Wrong.
I typed: 'COVID-19 is NOTHING but some overblown virus that virtually kills ONLY weak, old people.'
I will assume that you did not see the word 'virtually'.

6) That makes no sense. If the vulnerable are already quarantined - how can quarantining the rest make any difference to the vulnerable already quarantined?
 Please answer that.
And the more younger people that get this - the faster a herd immunity can happen.

Once again - my point is NOT that COVID-19 is not deadly. My point is that it is VIRTUALLY only deadly to people whom are old and very sick.

No offense, but you are talking just like 80% of the world...like you are blindly believing what the government/MSM say and refuse to look at the facts.
EVERY link to stats I posted above cite government statistics from all over the globe as sources.

What should have been done is obvious.
Quarantine the vulnerable (the sick and the weak), give them money to help out and let everyone else lead their lives as normal.
That way, the vulnerable are under no extra danger and the economy goes on as normal without the tens of millions of layoffs and all the huge numbers of bankruptcies.
https://finance.yahoo.com/video/bankruptcies-likely-massive-small-businesses-201138758.html

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/18/swedish_epidemiologist_johan_giesecke_why_lockdowns_are_the_wrong_policy.html
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 07, 2020, 09:43:59 pm
Here is more proof that this lockdown is TOTALLY useless (except for those who have serious, health issues).

'NY Gov. Cuomo says 66% of new COVID-19 patients were sheltering at home: 'This is a surprise''

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/7/andrew-cuomo-says-66-of-new-covid-19-patients-were/
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: KwukDuck on May 07, 2020, 11:08:27 pm
1) With respect, wrong. The numbers are EXACTLY the same (in terms of who is mostly dying) in Sweden and the 7/8 US states (like Iowa) that did NOT lock down their population compared to locations that did. EXACTLY.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

2) Wrong - it's easy to imagine. Just look at Sweden. They did NOT lockdown and their death rate is lower than the UK's, France's and Italy's...who ALL did lock down.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Iowa has a population density of 55/sq.mile
New York has a population density of 26400/sq.mile

A population density of a fat two orders of magnitude bigger! (480x!!)

Same when you compare the UK with Sweden. A population density difference of an order of magnitude.
This matters, a lot, with something that  spreads through human interaction.


Quote
3) the rest of the article was irrelevant. The point was that THE guy in the UK said that 2/3 of COVID-19 deaths were to people who would have died within a year anyway. And I am positive he knows a HELL of a lot more about it then you (or I) do.
 He should - it was his words that were the main cause of all the panic in the UK.

Okay... If you think so... Even the title contains a conservative 'may'...
He was wrong on pretty much all relevant accounts, the numbers were wrong. The prediction that medical care would not be overwhelmed.
Not saying he's an idiot, i'm sure he has quite the expertise, just saying this is a new thing which we know very little about and predictions are not easy to accurately make, as stated in my initial reply.

Quote
4) Are you saying the official government statistics of New York State and Canada are erroneous? Yes or No, please?

https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/NYSDOHCOVID-19Tracker-Fatalities?%3Aembed=yes&%3Atoolbar=no&%3Atabs=n
https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/phac-aspc/documents/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/surv-covid19-epi-update-eng.pdf   Table 5

No, i didn't say they were fudging numbers. I only said it's the internet and you can find 'information' confirming whatever you believe. I know comorbidity and age is super relevant with covid19, i never argued anything else.

Quote
5) Wrong.
I typed: 'COVID-19 is NOTHING but some overblown virus that virtually kills ONLY weak, old people.'
I will assume that you did not see the word 'virtually'.

You really emphasized the NOTHING and ONLY there so yea, the 'virtually' didn't really get much emphasis there, not sure how to read that, not a native English speaker.
To me when somebody uses 'virtually' it is like an emphasis on what's coming next? Not a negation or to make it less emphasized?

Quote
6) That makes no sense. If the vulnerable are already quarantined - how can quarantining the rest make any difference to the vulnerable already quarantined?
 Please answer that.
And the more younger people that get this - the faster a herd immunity can happen.

I didn't argue  quarantining the vulnerable wouldn't wouldn't be effective. You said to warn them, not quarantine them. My response to warning people was that people would take it even less serious than they do a lock down already now. Essentially making it ineffective. If you turn the warning into a quarantine it becomes more effective.

As far as herd immunity goes, the jury is still out there. There have been several case reports of secondary infections which could indicate we do not develop any significant long term immunity, which is not uncommon. In addition, the genepool is quite huge at this point, and it has mutated into several strains already. Herd immunity is possible not applicable for this virus at all or in a limited way. The last i read about this was several weeks ago, we may have gotten new insights in the mean time.

Quote
Once again - my point is NOT that COVID-19 is not deadly. My point is that it is VIRTUALLY only deadly to people whom are old and very sick.

Yea, and everybody knows this. What's your point? Just let them oldies and sick people die already? Caring for them is not worth large scale mitigation protocols?

Quote
No offense, but you are talking just like 80% of the world...like you are blindly believing what the government/MSM say and refuse to look at the facts.
EVERY link to stats I posted above cite government statistics from all over the globe as sources.

The heck are you going on about? Talking about people blindly believing the government and than citing government stats?

Quote
What should have been done is obvious.
Quarantine the vulnerable (the sick and the weak), give them money to help out and let everyone else lead their lives as normal.
That way, the vulnerable are under no extra danger and the economy goes on as normal without the tens of millions of layoffs and all the huge numbers of bankruptcies.
https://finance.yahoo.com/video/bankruptcies-likely-massive-small-businesses-201138758.html

As stated before, this was all new, we didn't and still don't know much about it. It appears even younger people that recovered from covid19 can have severe scarring of the lung tissue. The lock downs are a fear response to the unknown. As we learn more, policy can be adjusted.
The 'hard' lock downs are not the right policy, i completely agree. The harm an economic collapse like this will have on people is also very serious and quickly overlooked in shadow of the pandemic.

I'm proud of the Dutch government that implemented an 'intelligent lock down' and is continuously adjusting policy to open up the country where possible while closely monitoring the numbers to keep the situation medically manageable.

Quote
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/18/swedish_epidemiologist_johan_giesecke_why_lockdowns_are_the_wrong_policy.html

Even he states that social distancing matters. In addition the herd immunity approach is all but certain. But in general i agree that shutting down the entire country can do more harm than good.
I just hope we learn more quickly and adjust policy to the best of our ability and insights.



Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: punternet on May 08, 2020, 01:46:03 am
Here is more proof that this lockdown is TOTALLY useless (except for those who have serious, health issues).

'NY Gov. Cuomo says 66% of new COVID-19 patients were sheltering at home: 'This is a surprise''

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/7/andrew-cuomo-says-66-of-new-covid-19-patients-were/

I'm sorry but the fact that you think this is evidence that the "lockdown is useless" shows that you do not understand the issue at all.
Of course most of the new cases will be people who were were sheltering at home because the vast majority of people are were sheltering at home. These people still go out to get groceries etc and that's why they constitute the majority of new infections.

You also completely failed to address the point of the level of deaths being more than double the expected deaths for the same period. How can something be "galactically overblown" when twice as many people are dying every day than prior to the Coronavirus?
Arguing that "virtually the only people it was killing are people who are old and sick" falls entirely flat. The old and sick are always with us. That cannot rationalize a death rate more than double the usual average. And that's WITH lockdown protocols.
If no precautions were taken the death toll would be exponentially higher.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 08, 2020, 02:11:01 am
1) With respect, wrong. The numbers are EXACTLY the same (in terms of who is mostly dying) in Sweden and the 7/8 US states (like Iowa) that did NOT lock down their population compared to locations that did. EXACTLY.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

2) Wrong - it's easy to imagine. Just look at Sweden. They did NOT lockdown and their death rate is lower than the UK's, France's and Italy's...who ALL did lock down.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Iowa has a population density of 55/sq.mile
New York has a population density of 26400/sq.mile

A population density of a fat two orders of magnitude bigger! (480x!!)

Same when you compare the UK with Sweden. A population density difference of an order of magnitude.
This matters, a lot, with something that  spreads through human interaction.


Quote
3) the rest of the article was irrelevant. The point was that THE guy in the UK said that 2/3 of COVID-19 deaths were to people who would have died within a year anyway. And I am positive he knows a HELL of a lot more about it then you (or I) do.
 He should - it was his words that were the main cause of all the panic in the UK.

Okay... If you think so... Even the title contains a conservative 'may'...
He was wrong on pretty much all relevant accounts, the numbers were wrong. The prediction that medical care would not be overwhelmed.
Not saying he's an idiot, i'm sure he has quite the expertise, just saying this is a new thing which we know very little about and predictions are not easy to accurately make, as stated in my initial reply.

Quote
4) Are you saying the official government statistics of New York State and Canada are erroneous? Yes or No, please?

https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/NYSDOHCOVID-19Tracker-Fatalities?%3Aembed=yes&%3Atoolbar=no&%3Atabs=n
https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/phac-aspc/documents/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/surv-covid19-epi-update-eng.pdf   Table 5

No, i didn't say they were fudging numbers. I only said it's the internet and you can find 'information' confirming whatever you believe. I know comorbidity and age is super relevant with covid19, i never argued anything else.

Quote
5) Wrong.
I typed: 'COVID-19 is NOTHING but some overblown virus that virtually kills ONLY weak, old people.'
I will assume that you did not see the word 'virtually'.

You really emphasized the NOTHING and ONLY there so yea, the 'virtually' didn't really get much emphasis there, not sure how to read that, not a native English speaker.
To me when somebody uses 'virtually' it is like an emphasis on what's coming next? Not a negation or to make it less emphasized?

Quote
6) That makes no sense. If the vulnerable are already quarantined - how can quarantining the rest make any difference to the vulnerable already quarantined?
 Please answer that.
And the more younger people that get this - the faster a herd immunity can happen.

I didn't argue  quarantining the vulnerable wouldn't wouldn't be effective. You said to warn them, not quarantine them. My response to warning people was that people would take it even less serious than they do a lock down already now. Essentially making it ineffective. If you turn the warning into a quarantine it becomes more effective.

As far as herd immunity goes, the jury is still out there. There have been several case reports of secondary infections which could indicate we do not develop any significant long term immunity, which is not uncommon. In addition, the genepool is quite huge at this point, and it has mutated into several strains already. Herd immunity is possible not applicable for this virus at all or in a limited way. The last i read about this was several weeks ago, we may have gotten new insights in the mean time.

Quote
Once again - my point is NOT that COVID-19 is not deadly. My point is that it is VIRTUALLY only deadly to people whom are old and very sick.

Yea, and everybody knows this. What's your point? Just let them oldies and sick people die already? Caring for them is not worth large scale mitigation protocols?

Quote
No offense, but you are talking just like 80% of the world...like you are blindly believing what the government/MSM say and refuse to look at the facts.
EVERY link to stats I posted above cite government statistics from all over the globe as sources.

The heck are you going on about? Talking about people blindly believing the government and than citing government stats?

Quote
What should have been done is obvious.
Quarantine the vulnerable (the sick and the weak), give them money to help out and let everyone else lead their lives as normal.
That way, the vulnerable are under no extra danger and the economy goes on as normal without the tens of millions of layoffs and all the huge numbers of bankruptcies.
https://finance.yahoo.com/video/bankruptcies-likely-massive-small-businesses-201138758.html

As stated before, this was all new, we didn't and still don't know much about it. It appears even younger people that recovered from covid19 can have severe scarring of the lung tissue. The lock downs are a fear response to the unknown. As we learn more, policy can be adjusted.
The 'hard' lock downs are not the right policy, i completely agree. The harm an economic collapse like this will have on people is also very serious and quickly overlooked in shadow of the pandemic.

I'm proud of the Dutch government that implemented an 'intelligent lock down' and is continuously adjusting policy to open up the country where possible while closely monitoring the numbers to keep the situation medically manageable.

Quote
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/18/swedish_epidemiologist_johan_giesecke_why_lockdowns_are_the_wrong_policy.html

Even he states that social distancing matters. In addition the herd immunity approach is all but certain. But in general i agree that shutting down the entire country can do more harm than good.
I just hope we learn more quickly and adjust policy to the best of our ability and insights.

1) WRONG.
Population density is almost TOTALLY IRRELEVANT.
Look at Canada? It has one of the lowest population densities on the planet. Yet they have 64000 cases. According to your theory - they should have almost no cases.
 It is not population density that matters. It is the % of the population that lives in urban areas that matters.
 Now look at the urban population % of the UK and Sweden?
Sweden's is actually higher - but they are close (87%-83%). France is 80% and Italy is 70%. That means Sweden has THE MOST concentrated population of the four countries. Yet - despite the fact they have not locked down - they have a much lower death rate than the other four.
 That proves that massed shutdowns do NOT work at lowering the death rate (assuming in both cases, the sick, old farts are quarantined).
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.URB.TOTL.IN.ZS


2) WRONG. I NEVER said compare Iowa to NY. I said compare the 8 non-shutdown states to the 42 shutdown states. The numbers are similar.
 I didn't say compare Iowa to NY.

Ok - tell me how forcibly quarantining people that have virtually no chance of dying of COVID-19 (practically everyone under 60) lowers the death rate in ANY WAY for those over 60 whom are already quarantined?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 08, 2020, 02:14:36 am
Here is more proof that this lockdown is TOTALLY useless (except for those who have serious, health issues).

'NY Gov. Cuomo says 66% of new COVID-19 patients were sheltering at home: 'This is a surprise''

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/7/andrew-cuomo-says-66-of-new-covid-19-patients-were/

I'm sorry but the fact that you think this is evidence that the "lockdown is useless" shows that you do not understand the issue at all.
Of course most of the new cases will be people who were were sheltering at home because the vast majority of people are were sheltering at home. These people still go out to get groceries etc and that's why they constitute the majority of new infections.

You also completely failed to address the point of the level of deaths being more than double the expected deaths for the same period. How can something be "galactically overblown" when twice as many people are dying every day than prior to the Coronavirus?
Arguing that "virtually the only people it was killing are people who are old and sick" falls entirely flat. The old and sick are always with us. That cannot rationalize a death rate more than double the usual average. And that's WITH lockdown protocols.
If no precautions were taken the death toll would be exponentially higher.

You are missing the point. Even Cuomo was shocked. Clearly, sheltering people is NOT working. And NY has some of the most draconian sheltering laws in America.
 Also, the fact the Sweden has no lockdowns for most people AND has a higher % of people in urban living yet has a lower death rate than the UK, France and Italy PROVES that lockdowns do NOT lower death rates.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.URB.TOTL.IN.ZS


Look...

My ENTIRE point is 1) COVID-19 virtually kills ONLY sick, old people. That is a fact.
https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/NYSDOHCOVID-19Tracker-Fatalities?%3Aembed=yes&%3Atoolbar=no&%3Atabs=n
https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/phac-aspc/documents/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/surv-covid19-epi-update-eng.pdf   Go to Table 5

2) Ok - please tell me how forcibly quarantining people that have virtually no chance of dying of COVID-19 (practically everyone under 60) lowers the death rate in ANY WAY for those over 60 whom are already quarantined?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: punternet on May 08, 2020, 03:10:28 pm
Quote
Ok - please tell me how forcibly quarantining people that have virtually no chance of dying of COVID-19 (practically everyone under 60) lowers the death rate in ANY WAY for those over 60 whom are already quarantined?

If you have to ask this you understand nothing about how viruses work. Do you think people who are quarantined can survive with no interaction with the outside world? Particularly people who may need medical treatment for other reasons.
And this doesn't only apply to the over 60's. For example:
My neighbour, a young woman is immuno-compromised because of chemotherapy. Her chemo is working and her prospects are good. But she has to leave her home in order to continue chemo. In a lockdown environment, she has far less chance of infection than otherwise.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: KwukDuck on May 08, 2020, 03:19:41 pm
1) WRONG.
Population density is almost TOTALLY IRRELEVANT.
Look at Canada? It has one of the lowest population densities on the planet. Yet they have 64000 cases. According to your theory - they should have almost no cases.
 It is not population density that matters. It is the % of the population that lives in urban areas that matters.
 Now look at the urban population % of the UK and Sweden?
Sweden's is actually higher - but they are close (87%-83%). France is 80% and Italy is 70%. That means Sweden has THE MOST concentrated population of the four countries. Yet - despite the fact they have not locked down - they have a much lower death rate than the other four.
 That proves that massed shutdowns do NOT work at lowering the death rate (assuming in both cases, the sick, old farts are quarantined).
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.URB.TOTL.IN.ZS

Actually, no, not wrong. The scale which i used is not the most accurate metric to show my point. Population density is extremely relevant with infectious disease, it's at the very nature of it.
The only two areas in Sweden with a higher population density than urban areas in the UK (where London ranks top) are within Stockholm, of which only one has little less than double that of the highest density areas in the UK, the other barely more. So let's average it out for the urban areas London and Stockholm, as we (at least I) lack exact figures for the sub areas of these cities and the sub areas aren't exactly isolated systems we can analyze.
Let's take a look...
London has 8.982 M people, on 1.572 km^2. That is a population density of 5.713 people/km^2. They have 25.000 confirmed infections, that is 0.278%.
Stockholm has 974.000 people, on 188 km^2. That is a population density of 5.180 people/km^2. They have 9.000 confirmed infections, that is 0.924%.

Are you still going to argue a lock down has no effect? Are you still going to argue population density is 'almost totally irrelevant'?  (why this double thing where you first say 'almost' and then 'totally', that caused confusion in my first reply too, i'm very unfamiliar with this use and am not sure how to interpret emphasis.)

The lock-downs are not meant to shut down the virus, they are meant to buy us time, to scale up the medical system, to learn more about the virus and to prepare society to run again with the virus in mind.
They are an initial response to mitigate escalation. You can do these lock-downs in various ways, and i think full hard lock downs are not the best option as they potentially hurt more people than it saves.

Quote
2) WRONG. I NEVER said compare Iowa to NY. I said compare the 8 non-shutdown states to the 42 shutdown states. The numbers are similar.
 I didn't say compare Iowa to NY.
Wrong what? So the Iowa/NY comparison is a fluke? I don't have time to compare all of them in detail.


Quote
Ok - tell me how forcibly quarantining people that have virtually no chance of dying of COVID-19 (practically everyone under 60) lowers the death rate in ANY WAY for those over 60 whom are already quarantined?
I can't speak for other places, but in the Netherlands, 30% of hospitalizations for covid-19 is people under 60. At saturation levels, that is 30% less beds available for those over 60 or additionally compromised health situation. Also beds will be reserved for those with an increased chance of survival. So at saturation levels, the 'elderly and weak' are basically just left to die without care, alone. Like what happened in Italy and a few other places.
I think this is something we should avoid.

Quote
Also, the fact the Sweden has no lockdowns for most people AND has a higher % of people in urban living yet has a lower death rate than the UK, France and Italy PROVES that lockdowns do NOT lower death rates.

Lock-downs are not meant to reduce the death rate by itself, they are meant to bring down the infection rate, this could result in a decreased death rate. However, death rate depends on so many other factors, comorbidities, how patients are treated, if there's enough medical staff and equipment available, the demography of the infected patients.
Again, it is meant to mitigate the situation. The default death rate can only be sustained when our medical system is not overwhelmed. Lock-down's  don't improve the death rate, they prevent it from shooting up.
These are fundamentals, but in reality, the death rate figures and infection figures are still quite unreliable, getting better as time progresses.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on May 10, 2020, 02:50:31 am
We're at the point now where we're fucked if we do and we're fucked if we don't. The ineptitude of leadership is not going to abate anytime soon. It's very clear the American federal strategy is to wait for a miracle, and then take credit for it. trump is afraid of testing on a massive scale, because he's afraid the numbers will hurt his re election chances. However, test or not, people are going to die, so those numbers are going to haunt him regardless. (As of today, about 80,000 and counting.) Testing and tracking could mitigate this, but again, the federal strategy is to wait for a miracle, and then take credit for it. So testing and tracking are out of the question. Hence, trump and the republicans are now fine with sending people out to risk their lives to bring back the economy, so they can be re-elected. And lots of Americans are fine with that as well.  And this is what happens when you elect a reality tv star con man president.

I hate to be the alarmist, but I don't see the US recovering from this. Americans naively think it's close to being over when it's only the very, very beginning, and nothing has been done to now to mitigate the spread of the virus in the US, so the US inevitably will be what and how the virus leaves it.  The US economy is fucked if it opens and it's fucked if it stays closed. (If you open, customers aren't going to shop with confidence, and if it closes, they're not going to shop at all.) Once again, due in no small part to inept leadership, that blithely continues to just allow things to happen, and hope for the best and then take credit for great things, no matter how it turns out. Lewis Carroll couldn't have written a more rabbit hole scenario.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 10, 2020, 04:06:14 am
Germany has new data for the seriousness of COVID-19.

Covid-19 in average shortens life of infected and died males by 10 years or higher and infected woman by 9 years or higher.
This means it shortens that much the life also of those people that had serious health issues before.

There is so much fake news out there. People believing in more conspiracy theories than before. They start to project their mental health issues on the lockdown that they find these escapes: https://youtu.be/urglg3WimHA

People that are in terms with themselves have no issue with this situation and the lockdown.
No offense, but that stat is 100% nonsense.
It is IMPOSSIBLE to know how long someone will live if they did not get COVID-19.

BTW - Professor Neil Ferguson says - as do many others - that 2/3'rd's you died of COVID-19 would probably have died within a year. Meaning, most people that are dying of COVID-19 were terminal already before they got the disease.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/25/two-thirds-patients-die-coronavirus-would-have-died-year-anyway/
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 10, 2020, 04:12:04 am
Quote
Ok - please tell me how forcibly quarantining people that have virtually no chance of dying of COVID-19 (practically everyone under 60) lowers the death rate in ANY WAY for those over 60 whom are already quarantined?

If you have to ask this you understand nothing about how viruses work. Do you think people who are quarantined can survive with no interaction with the outside world? Particularly people who may need medical treatment for other reasons.
And this doesn't only apply to the over 60's. For example:
My neighbour, a young woman is immuno-compromised because of chemotherapy. Her chemo is working and her prospects are good. But she has to leave her home in order to continue chemo. In a lockdown environment, she has far less chance of infection than otherwise.

You are the ignoramus here on this subject...clearly.
And guess again pal - they are cancelling people's chemo because of COVID-19 and tons of surgeries. Over 100,000 surgeries in Canada alone.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/19/im-very-frightened-lives-on-hold-as-nhs-surgery-postponed-due-to-covid-19
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/03/23/cancer-patients-chemo-during-coronavirus-outbreak-canceled-appointments/2897880001/
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-19-surgery-backlog-canada-1.5543530
https://globalnews.ca/news/6738005/alberta-surgeries-postponed-covid-19-coronavirus-health-calgary-cancer/

And you dodged my question completely.
I will ask again - let's see if you answer it this time:

Ok - please tell me how forcibly quarantining people that have virtually no chance of dying of COVID-19 (practically everyone under 60) lowers the death rate in ANY WAY for those over 60 whom are already quarantined?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 10, 2020, 04:29:49 am
1) WRONG.
Population density is almost TOTALLY IRRELEVANT.
Look at Canada? It has one of the lowest population densities on the planet. Yet they have 64000 cases. According to your theory - they should have almost no cases.
 It is not population density that matters. It is the % of the population that lives in urban areas that matters.
 Now look at the urban population % of the UK and Sweden?
Sweden's is actually higher - but they are close (87%-83%). France is 80% and Italy is 70%. That means Sweden has THE MOST concentrated population of the four countries. Yet - despite the fact they have not locked down - they have a much lower death rate than the other four.
 That proves that massed shutdowns do NOT work at lowering the death rate (assuming in both cases, the sick, old farts are quarantined).
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.URB.TOTL.IN.ZS

Actually, no, not wrong. The scale which i used is not the most accurate metric to show my point. Population density is extremely relevant with infectious disease, it's at the very nature of it.
The only two areas in Sweden with a higher population density than urban areas in the UK (where London ranks top) are within Stockholm, of which only one has little less than double that of the highest density areas in the UK, the other barely more. So let's average it out for the urban areas London and Stockholm, as we (at least I) lack exact figures for the sub areas of these cities and the sub areas aren't exactly isolated systems we can analyze.
Let's take a look...
London has 8.982 M people, on 1.572 km^2. That is a population density of 5.713 people/km^2. They have 25.000 confirmed infections, that is 0.278%.
Stockholm has 974.000 people, on 188 km^2. That is a population density of 5.180 people/km^2. They have 9.000 confirmed infections, that is 0.924%.

Are you still going to argue a lock down has no effect? Are you still going to argue population density is 'almost totally irrelevant'?  (why this double thing where you first say 'almost' and then 'totally', that caused confusion in my first reply too, i'm very unfamiliar with this use and am not sure how to interpret emphasis.)

The lock-downs are not meant to shut down the virus, they are meant to buy us time, to scale up the medical system, to learn more about the virus and to prepare society to run again with the virus in mind.
They are an initial response to mitigate escalation. You can do these lock-downs in various ways, and i think full hard lock downs are not the best option as they potentially hurt more people than it saves.

Quote
2) WRONG. I NEVER said compare Iowa to NY. I said compare the 8 non-shutdown states to the 42 shutdown states. The numbers are similar.
 I didn't say compare Iowa to NY.
Wrong what? So the Iowa/NY comparison is a fluke? I don't have time to compare all of them in detail.


Quote
Ok - tell me how forcibly quarantining people that have virtually no chance of dying of COVID-19 (practically everyone under 60) lowers the death rate in ANY WAY for those over 60 whom are already quarantined?
I can't speak for other places, but in the Netherlands, 30% of hospitalizations for covid-19 is people under 60. At saturation levels, that is 30% less beds available for those over 60 or additionally compromised health situation. Also beds will be reserved for those with an increased chance of survival. So at saturation levels, the 'elderly and weak' are basically just left to die without care, alone. Like what happened in Italy and a few other places.
I think this is something we should avoid.

Quote
Also, the fact the Sweden has no lockdowns for most people AND has a higher % of people in urban living yet has a lower death rate than the UK, France and Italy PROVES that lockdowns do NOT lower death rates.

Lock-downs are not meant to reduce the death rate by itself, they are meant to bring down the infection rate, this could result in a decreased death rate. However, death rate depends on so many other factors, comorbidities, how patients are treated, if there's enough medical staff and equipment available, the demography of the infected patients.
Again, it is meant to mitigate the situation. The default death rate can only be sustained when our medical system is not overwhelmed. Lock-down's  don't improve the death rate, they prevent it from shooting up.
These are fundamentals, but in reality, the death rate figures and infection figures are still quite unreliable, getting better as time progresses.

1) Well no kidding Stockholm has a higher infection rate than London. SWEDEN IS NOT LOCKED DOWN.
I am not talking about - nor do I give an 's' about - the infection rate.
I am ONLY talking about the death rate.

And, BTW, a high infection rate is good (amongst healthy people), it means herd immunity can happen faster.
That is a good thing.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8233783/Sweden-herd-immunity-month-claims-infectious-diseases-chief.html

  I will make this simple for you - Does Sweden have a lower death rate than GB, Italy and France despite the fact Sweden have a higher population urban % and they did NOT do mass lockdowns?
Yes or no, please?


https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.URB.TOTL.IN.ZS
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I will read NOTHING else you type on this until you answer that with either a 'Yes' or a 'No'.


2) I will ask again - Ok, please tell me how forcibly quarantining people that have virtually no chance of dying of COVID-19 (practically everyone under 60) lowers the death rate in ANY WAY for those over 60 whom are already quarantined?

And again - I don't care about infection rates or hospitalizations. I am SOLELY talking about DEATH RATE.

And please stop posting statistics without a link to back them up. No offense, but I am not taking your (or anyone else's) word on statistics.
Every stat I post - I post a link to back it up.
 So far, every stat you post; you backup with nothing.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 11, 2020, 09:26:08 am
I gave explanation earlier, but you prefer to ignore it. Don't come with shit and then complain people don't want to talk with you about it.

1) Sorry - I thought you were someone else when I responded above.

2) And what does 6 weeks ago mean? He has not changed his mind and there is ZERO data that his statement is wrong.

Your post is saying that some loser knows how long old farts are going to live? HELLO? That is impossible. You cannot know how long someone is going to live.
That is TOTALLY unprovable and if you think that is valid science - you don't understand science, no offense.

Check these stats - current.
https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/NYSDOHCOVID-19Tracker-Fatalities?%3Aembed=yes&%3Atoolbar=no&%3Atabs=n

And they clearly show that 90% of everyone who dies of COVID-19 already has at least 1 SERIOUS health issue. And roughly 2/3 of those who die are over 70.
The scientist (or whatever that joker is) that you quoted expects a person who is already about 75-80 to live another 10 years even though he has a SERIOUS illness?
 Give me a break.
 It's hard enough to get to 85-90 even if you are healthy.

 Plus - you cannot accurately predict how long someone will live - that is IMPOSSIBLE. It is physically impossible. All you can do is guess.

 The person you quoted is a complete quack.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 12, 2020, 01:08:44 am
I gave explanation earlier, but you prefer to ignore it. Don't come with shit and then complain people don't want to talk with you about it.

1) Sorry - I thought you were someone else when I responded above.

2) And what does 6 weeks ago mean? He has not changed his mind and there is ZERO data that his statement is wrong.

Your post is saying that some loser knows how long old farts are going to live? HELLO? That is impossible. You cannot know how long someone is going to live.
That is TOTALLY unprovable and if you think that is valid science - you don't understand science, no offense.

Check these stats - current.
https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/NYSDOHCOVID-19Tracker-Fatalities?%3Aembed=yes&%3Atoolbar=no&%3Atabs=n

And they clearly show that 90% of everyone who dies of COVID-19 already has at least 1 SERIOUS health issue. And roughly 2/3 of those who die are over 70.
The scientist (or whatever that joker is) that you quoted expects a person who is already about 75-80 to live another 10 years even though he has a SERIOUS illness?
 Give me a break.
 It's hard enough to get to 85-90 even if you are healthy.

 Plus - you cannot predict how long someone will live - that is IMPOSSIBLE. It is physically impossible.

 The person you quoted is a complete quack.

Your disprespect towards elderly people, your naming of them reflects in your opinions about COVID-19.

Go talk to a data analyst of a life insurance and he will teach you a few lessons about what you believe is not possible. Do you think life insurances with their life insurance fee are playing lottery without knowing the probabilities of overall people (and gender) dying with their previous sicknesses? You seem never have to be requested a life insurance or a occupational disablement insurance. Otherwise you would know better.

You seem to have very limited knowledge on scientific topics, on philosphy, and on mathemathics with statistics and probabilities.

I have already proven - with current links - that almost everyone who dies of COVID-19 already has at least one, SERIOUS health problem AND that the vast majority of those who die are old (75-80 on average).

Now - Mr. KnowItAll - post a link to unbiased, factual proof that the average, life expectancy of a person 75-80 with at least one serious health problem is at least ten years? And not opinions....STATISTICAL PROOF from unbiased sources.

Without it - all the blather you are spewing forth means absolutely NOTHING.

And unless your reply to me on this includes said link - I will waste no more time on you on this.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Ricksanchez6 on May 12, 2020, 09:09:34 am
Too many people lacking in empathy and common sense. Why are you talking about how it mostly affects old people or that they had pre existing conditions? That's not the point.

The point is that those deaths can be PREVENTED. People like you don't care until it personally affects you or a loved one and that's really sad and unfortunate. And you keep saying people under X age have virtually no chance of dying. They can still die and/or spread it to people that have a higher chance of dying. Please try to do some critical thinking.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 12, 2020, 09:33:55 am
And I don't discuss with someone that is a discussion extremists that dictate what is allowed to present, like you now have proven several times. Go dictate your girlfriend what she is allowed to talk to you, but not me.

In other words - you cannot post said link because it obviously does not exist.
But instead of admitting that (something you obviously cannot handle doing)? You try to blow it off as some sort of 'I will not be spoken to in this way' nonsense.

Which obviously means you cannot prove your earlier point.

Which was ridiculously obvious right from the beginning.

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 12, 2020, 09:45:03 am
Too many people lacking in empathy and common sense. Why are you talking about how it mostly affects old people or that they had pre existing conditions? That's not the point.

The point is that those deaths can be PREVENTED. People like you don't care until it personally affects you or a loved one and that's really sad and unfortunate. And you keep saying people under X age have virtually no chance of dying. They can still die and/or spread it to people that have a higher chance of dying. Please try to do some critical thinking.

It is you who do not seem to be thinking properly.

You seem content to force thousands of businesses into bankruptcy, see millions of people suffer because they cannot get many medical procedures because hospitals are no longer doing them for fear of spreading COVID-19 and clearly cause tremendous mental hardship to hundreds of millions of people...all to save the life of almost exclusively old people whom are/were very sick already and were probably going to die on their own within a year or two.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-19-surgery-backlog-canada-1.5543530
https://sports.yahoo.com/covid-19-lockdowns-toll-record-102918434.html
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/05/08/store-closings-chapter-11-bankruptcy-coronavirus-covid-19/3090235001/
 
And you call me the one who lacks empathy?

🤣

All that needed to be done was ask those with serious, health conditions to self-quarantine and offer them assistance to do that. And allow everyone who was under little/no risk to lead their normal lives.
 But no, people like you fall for the MSM/government panic and force the world to lockdown...despite many of these lockdown orders going against basic rights laid out in many Constitution's (like US and Canada's to name just a couple).


But okay - just answer me this, please:

Tell me how forcibly quarantining people that have virtually no chance of dying of COVID-19 (practically everyone under 60) lowers the death rate in ANY WAY for those over 60 whom are already quarantined?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: KwukDuck on May 12, 2020, 03:54:18 pm

1) Well no kidding Stockholm has a higher infection rate than London. SWEDEN IS NOT LOCKED DOWN.
I am not talking about - nor do I give an 's' about - the infection rate.
I am ONLY talking about the death rate.

And, BTW, a high infection rate is good (amongst healthy people), it means herd immunity can happen faster.
That is a good thing.

Can you show us that SARS-CoV2 causes any significant form of immunity to reinfection? As stated before, various case reports show people got re-infected.

Quote
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8233783/Sweden-herd-immunity-month-claims-infectious-diseases-chief.html

Sure, you can claim anything, that's what the entire world has been doing for the past months, and basically everybody was shown to be wrong because we don't have enough data yet to create a reliable model or policy for that matter.
That's why moving cautiously is a good thing... When we know more we can adjust policy.

Quote
  I will make this simple for you - Does Sweden have a lower death rate than GB, Italy and France despite the fact Sweden have a higher population urban % and they did NOT do mass lockdowns?
Yes or no, please?


Yes.
When you cherry pick your data you can make it look like you have a valid point. Once we also include Germany, the Netherlands and Spain, the picture changes.

Here are the figures:
SW 12%
UK 14%
FR 15%
IT 14%
DE 4.5%
SP 12%
NL 13%

This is current data based on hospital reports and very limited testing capacity. The real infection count and death rate are probably much higher, with a considerably lower death rate. As testing increases we're getting better insights.

Quote
I will read NOTHING else you type on this until you answer that with either a 'Yes' or a 'No'.

This wonderfully illustrates your dishonesty here i think, expecting a simple Yes or No to settle the issue when in reality it's a very complex situation with a lot of variables and bad data to work with.

Quote
2) I will ask again - Ok, please tell me how forcibly quarantining people that have virtually no chance of dying of COVID-19 (practically everyone under 60) lowers the death rate in ANY WAY for those over 60 whom are already quarantined?

And again - I don't care about infection rates or hospitalizations. I am SOLELY talking about DEATH RATE.

Yea, those are totally unrelated......
I already explained this. Several times.
An overwhelmed medical system cannot and will not support people with lower chances of survival. This is not just limited to covid infections, there's more going on in the world than covid.
ICU full of covid patients (under 60 for your sake of argument) cannot support my father of 65 that's having a heart attack.
You're cool with him dying because he was weak anyway? That's fine. I'm not.
This same ICU can also not support new covid patients under 60 that need ventilation for their survival.
How you do not see this is beyond me.

In addition quarantine is not some magical solution to avoid infection. Unless you can somehow be in full isolation, please tell me how this would practically work...

Quote
And please stop posting statistics without a link to back them up. No offense, but I am not taking your (or anyone else's) word on statistics.
Every stat I post - I post a link to back it up.
 So far, every stat you post; you backup with nothing.

I haven't used that many stats i think?

Here are the Dutch stats i was referring to: https://www.rivm.nl/sites/default/files/2020-05/COVID-19_WebSite_rapport_20200512_1143.pdf
For the global corona stats i'm just using the covid world map that's used everywhere by CSSE at Johns Hopkins University.

The fact that you used GlobalResearch as one of your sources should be a cause for concern all by its own. Not to dismiss anything specific out of hand, but they are a well known conspiracy/quack platform.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 12, 2020, 06:17:09 pm

Ummm...you do realize that I read almost nothing you type except those parts which directly answer my questions?


So - to my first question: Does Sweden have a lower death rate than GB, Italy and France despite the fact Sweden have a higher population urban % and they did NOT do mass lockdowns?

And the answer is yes.
I am not paying attention to the stats you posted because there is no link to them. And besides, countries judge death rate's different. So you are comparing apples and oranges.

Sweden conclusively proves that lockdown's of healthy people have NO impact on the death rate whatsoever.

That point is proven.


The second point - your point is not proven by the facts. You are just guessing. And you are wrong.
The Swedes have not had a mass over flow of ICU beds - even though they did not lockdown.

'The Swedes who have died from the coronavirus did not die due to lack of hospital beds or ventilators. Thanks to a rapid increase in intensive care unit capacity, 20 percent of Sweden's ICUs are unoccupied. Stockholm has built a new field hospital, already equipped to receive hundreds of COVID-19 patients, including 30 ICU beds. So far it has not had to open. The average age of the dead has been 81, which is close to our average life expectancy.

And it seems like the disease is now slowing down in Sweden, not speeding up. The number of COVID-19 patients newly admitted to the ICU has been relatively stable since March 23, and since people are also getting better and leaving the hospital, the total number of patients in ICU treatment is declining somewhat, at least for the moment.'

https://reason.com/2020/04/17/in-sweden-will-voluntary-self-isolation-work-better-than-state-enforced-lockdowns-in-the-long-run/

Even though Sweden did not lockdown, they have not run out of ICU beds during the COVID-19 'crisis'. True or False?


Finally - I do not use GlobalResearch as a source. I did a search for the Stanford article and their link came up first - so I used it.
Sheesh.
Here is the source article - https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/17/1000113/up-to-4-of-silicon-valley-already-infected-with-coronavirus/

You post NO links in English.
I post at least a dozen IN ENGLISH.
And you nitpick about one source used as a link?
 ::)

 
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 12, 2020, 07:22:28 pm

The fact that you used GlobalResearch as one of your sources should be a cause for concern all by its own. Not to dismiss anything specific out of hand, but they are a well known conspiracy/quack platform.

One of the reasons I posted the Foil song of Weired Al and I pointed out false balancing mechanisms ...

The same people that now demonstrate as thousands people in German cities creating huge super spreader events, no masks, no distancing, attacking journalists and police, while talking they now life in fascism and dictatorship while protesting and demonstrate in a democracy and abandon all anti-infection measures they were asked for. While 90% of people act with care to keep infection rates low, give the world a chance to develop a vaccine and test it, to protect people that are in danger without vaccination, these irresponsible egoistic people shit on the life of others - they maybe even hang out with eugenic theories of the Nazis, that are base of the justifications of their ignorance.

And especially German language is not acceptable on this site I can't post German data anyway, I can only summarize it. But for the German calculations they used the same statistical methods like here from Glasgow university https://wellcomeopenresearch.org/articles/5-75

Google translate to improve accessibility:
https://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.tagesschau.de%2Finvestigativ%2Fndr%2Fcorona-lebenserwartung-101.html

So what?

So the rest of the world has to suffer terribly just to keep a few hundred thousand USELESS old farts alive for 5-8 more years?

Were I old - I would NEVER ask people to sacrifice to keep me alive longer. NEVER.

But I guess you don't care about other people. Just so long as their misery keeps you/some old fart you love alive longer.

That is INCREDIBLY selfish.

You would not know nobility if it fell on your head.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 13, 2020, 12:59:51 am
So the moment you are proven wrong you start to tell us that all that you want is eugenics and you ARE a fan of eugenics - old people are not allowed to live anymore. We all know from which ideology this comes from.

And your user handle? 888? Maybe you tried to hide the 88 that you actually wanted to use as a code for HH? Or the 1888 that is the code for AH HH?

What you are blathering on about AH HH is beyond me. You sound like you are losing it. 🤣🤣🤣

This video I made tells you ALL that I think about people over 80.
ALL 80+ year old's are selfish and/or COWARDS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt9f4jNVtvY

I will not discuss this here with you further as a) it is off topic and b) I don't respect you enough to waste my time doing it here.


And hello? 650,000 mostly old farts die every year due to the flu.
https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/14-12-2017-up-to-650-000-people-die-of-respiratory-diseases-linked-to-seasonal-flu-each-year

And I don't see the world - or you - freaking out about them.
So you are a hypocrite. You could care less if old people die of the flu - but you freak out if they might die of COVID-19.
My point is that you do not destroy the world's economy just to save people who will die soon anyway. That is lunacy.

And your study does NOT look at individual cases - just a model. They did not take into account just how sick the people that died of COVID-19 were before they contracted the virus.


And what has the lockdown done?

There was no lockdown in Sweden - and the ICU beds are not overflowing.

'The Swedes who have died from the coronavirus did not die due to lack of hospital beds or ventilators. Thanks to a rapid increase in intensive care unit capacity, 20 percent of Sweden's ICUs are unoccupied. Stockholm has built a new field hospital, already equipped to receive hundreds of COVID-19 patients, including 30 ICU beds. So far it has not had to open. The average age of the dead has been 81, which is close to our average life expectancy.

And it seems like the disease is now slowing down in Sweden, not speeding up. The number of COVID-19 patients newly admitted to the ICU has been relatively stable since March 23, and since people are also getting better and leaving the hospital, the total number of patients in ICU treatment is declining somewhat, at least for the moment.'


https://reason.com/2020/04/17/in-sweden-will-voluntary-self-isolation-work-better-than-state-enforced-lockdowns-in-the-long-run/

So show us a link to unbiased, factual proof that substantial numbers of people WILL FOR CERTAIN be saved by locking down the entire population? Not guesses or estimates or models or theories...unbiased, factual proof.

I guarantee that you cannot.

Which means your whole point is TOTALLY useless.


Have a nice day.




Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: KwukDuck on May 13, 2020, 02:40:42 am

Ummm...you do realize that I read almost nothing you type except those parts which directly answer my questions?

I'm not surprised. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch.

Quote
So - to my first question: Does Sweden have a lower death rate than GB, Italy and France despite the fact Sweden have a higher population urban % and they did NOT do mass lockdowns?

And the answer is yes.

Sure if you ignore the data i provided and only use data that fits your narrative.

Quote
I am not paying attention to the stats you posted because there is no link to them.

I told you where i got the data at the bottom of my last post, "For the global corona stats i'm just using the covid world map that's used everywhere by CSSE at Johns Hopkins University.". But here's a link if you're too lazy to navigate there yourself, https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.html get yourself a calculator and voila.
Feel free to ignore data the contradicts your views, doesn't make you any more correct about anything.

Quote
And besides, countries judge death rate's different. So you are comparing apples and oranges.

Talking about shooting yourself in the foot...
You brought it up, i just extended your biased data set.

Quote
Sweden conclusively proves that lockdown's of healthy people have NO impact on the death rate whatsoever.

That point is proven.

Well no, but hopefully this is the case, then restrictive policy globally can be relaxed. We will know once we get more and better data.
As stated before, i don't think hard full lock downs are a good way to go. We didn't do that here in the Netherlands either, which i think was a good move.

Quote
The second point - your point is not proven by the facts. You are just guessing. And you are wrong.
The Swedes have not had a mass over flow of ICU beds - even though they did not lockdown.

Yea i think i was clear that was a hypothetical that we wish to avoid in light of bad and little data.
There are many factors that play a role here.
So why do you think Italy and Spain had this overflow of the medical system?

Quote
'The Swedes who have died from the coronavirus did not die due to lack of hospital beds or ventilators. Thanks to a rapid increase in intensive care unit capacity, 20 percent of Sweden's ICUs are unoccupied. Stockholm has built a new field hospital, already equipped to receive hundreds of COVID-19 patients, including 30 ICU beds. So far it has not had to open. The average age of the dead has been 81, which is close to our average life expectancy.

And it seems like the disease is now slowing down in Sweden, not speeding up. The number of COVID-19 patients newly admitted to the ICU has been relatively stable since March 23, and since people are also getting better and leaving the hospital, the total number of patients in ICU treatment is declining somewhat, at least for the moment.'

https://reason.com/2020/04/17/in-sweden-will-voluntary-self-isolation-work-better-than-state-enforced-lockdowns-in-the-long-run/

Great! That's how we do it here too. So let me get this straight, you're basically just against a forced government lockdown but in support of people doing self isolation, do i understand that correctly?

Quote
Even though Sweden did not lockdown, they have not run out of ICU beds during the COVID-19 'crisis'. True or False?

True as far as i know, same for many other countries, your point is?

Quote
Finally - I do not use GlobalResearch as a source. I did a search for the Stanford article and their link came up first - so I used it.
Sheesh.

Okay then.......

Quote
Here is the source article - https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/17/1000113/up-to-4-of-silicon-valley-already-infected-with-coronavirus/
Yep new data from various small studies is looking very positive all around the world.

Quote
You post NO links in English.
I post at least a dozen IN ENGLISH.
And you nitpick about one source used as a link?
 ::)

I don't have an English source for the situation in the Netherlands, the graphs and tables should be quite self explanatory even if you can't read the context.

 
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 13, 2020, 03:21:33 am
I'm not surprised. Cognitive dissonance is a bitch.
LOL...wrong.
Cognitive dissonance?
To quote a line from a movie 'I do not think it means what you think it means'. 
It's because I do not wish to waste my time playing the game 'let's turn a simple conversation into 100 different little conversations'.
It's an old chat forum trick that I will not play.
 Life is too short.
To be totally honest - and I mean no offense - but I think you are doing this because you are an unhappy fellow who is desperate for conversation/debate/trolling. After all - you are a mod in a porn chat forum that appears to be largely inhabited with disturbed misogynists. Your life cannot be that full.


So...to recap:

1) you admit that Sweden has a lower death rate than GB, France and Italy...even though the former have no forced lockdown and the latter three do.
Plus, you posted no links that dispel the notion that lockdown's do not lower the death rate AT ALL.

So, the conclusion is obvious.
Lockdowns do not lower the death rate...period.

We are done on that one until you can post a link to unbiased, factual, STATISTICAL proof to the contrary.

Which you will not be able to do.


2) you admit that Sweden - even though it did not do forced lockdowns - did not in ANY way run out of ICU beds.

Which totally dispels the theory you were posting earlier about (in essence) too many COVID-19 patients will fill ICU wards to overflowing.

So that also proves that no lockdowns do not put an undue burden on ICU's.


So...let's wrap it up:

Lockdowns are not only unconstitutional in many countries (Canada and America for just two).
But there is NO unbiased, factual proof that they lower the COVID-19 death rate AT ALL or that they are causing deaths to other people due to ICU bed over flow.

Lockdowns:

Con: send economies into economic depression
        cause hundreds of millions of people to suffer emotionally
        cause millions of regular surgeries to be postponed - thus causing millions more to suffer.
        cause massive increases in national debt
        cause thousands of businesses to go bankrupt
        lower the COVID-19 death rate not one bit.
        put no dangerous strain on ICU wards

Pro: nothing
(other then padding the ego of politicians/bureaucrats and making spineless, trained minions feel safer)

Yup...I think we are done here.

If you can find any ENGLISH links to UNBIASED, factual proof (not interested in theories/models/guesses) - please post it/them. I will read no further replies from you on this (for now) unless they contain a link to unbiased, factual, statistical proof that disproves my above points (just trying to save us both from wasting time).

Until then...my work is done here (with you, anyway).

Have a nice day.


Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: KwukDuck on May 13, 2020, 04:14:26 am
...

Yup...I think we are done here.

Yes, yes we are.
Take care Billy, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 13, 2020, 09:24:42 am
A great job by Rand Paul to lay out some common sense....though I realize the sheep/people with wet pasta for spines that buy into the government line only believe what the government/MSM tells them to believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFhkAcYqe0M
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 13, 2020, 09:36:27 am
...

Yup...I think we are done here.

Yes, yes we are.
Take care Billy, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Well, uh, thanks.

A bit melodramatic. I mean it's only a chat forum - lighten up. Sheesh.

As for the God thing? Believing in God Clubs is not my thing.

After all - God Clubs are exclusively for the weak and/or the ignorant and/or the desperate.


Have a nice day.


Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: KwukDuck on May 13, 2020, 05:00:41 pm
...


Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: KwukDuck on May 14, 2020, 01:34:54 am
These articles and related research describe the problem with focusing on herd immunity.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/05/11/science.abb5793
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766097
https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047365v2
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 15, 2020, 08:07:50 am
BTW - several bureaucrats/pathetic politicians - whom are desperate to hang on to the power these lockdowns have given them - are now starting to bring up a new reason to justify closing the schools (since COVID-19 has killed virtually no, healthy children).
 The Kawasaki disease.
 Well, that is a load of overblown nonsense.
The death rate for the Kawasaki Disease (if that is what these children have) is 1% without treatment. And 0.17% with treatment.
https://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/pediatrics/miscellaneous-disorders-in-infants-and-children/kawasaki-disease

That means the odds of a child dying of this disease with proper treatment is about 600:1 against.
BTW - the odds of dying in a car crash in America are 106:1 against.

https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/all-injuries/preventable-death-overview/odds-of-dying/

I talk about it more here with some more links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M43XOybB_KU
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 15, 2020, 08:36:27 am
These articles and related research describe the problem with focusing on herd immunity.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/05/11/science.abb5793
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766097
https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047365v2

Wow - you seem just dying to keep the shutdown going for as long as possible.

I wonder if it is due to fear or your just love government's controlling us. Clearly it is one/both of those...no matter what you say.

Dealing with them one at a time:

1: Modelling done from over a month ago - means NOTHING to me. There have been a TON of COMPLETELY erroneous models during this 'pandemic'. They have almost zero cred with me.
2 & 3: nothing but guessing and speculation with zero hard facts.
4: It's funded ENTIRELY by the Chinese government(s), it's on a small group of people, it's funded by the Chinese government, the conclusions were virtually non-existent and it's funded by the Chinese government. The latter have a vested interest in being able to control their people through fear of COVID-19. Enough said.

As for Herd Immunity?
There is ZERO, unbiased, factual proof that herd immunity cannot happen.
ZERO.

We will learn in a few months (possibly). There is ZERO point in keeping the lockdown going (other then fear and political/bureaucratic ego) without definitive evidence.

We already know that COVID-19 has a similar death rate to the seasonal flu:
https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/17/1000113/up-to-4-of-silicon-valley-already-infected-with-coronavirus/

Plus, Sweden has already proven (as I posted links above) that lockdowns were TOTALLY wrong (except for the weak and/or old farts) and that their death rate is lower than many European countries (whereas according to the 'experts' - it should be higher than EVERYONE'S).

This whole, fucking thing will be proven by history to be GALACTICALLY overblown.

And don't bother responding with your 127 different quote responses. Other then links - I will not waste my time reading them as it's painfully obvious that your mind is either closed on the matter and/or you just have some huge desire for endless debating. I genuinely do not know which it is.

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: KwukDuck on May 15, 2020, 09:28:53 pm
Why are you even replying to me, I thought you were done...?


These articles and related research describe the problem with focusing on herd immunity.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/05/11/science.abb5793
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766097
https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047365v2

Wow - you seem just dying to keep the shutdown going for as long as possible.

Nope, not at all, i think it's stupid as a continued policy, as i've stated right from the start, it's good as an emergency precaution in light of little to no data.
I'm just here for the science, not to discuss your politics.

Quote
I wonder if it is due to fear or your just love government's controlling us. Clearly it is one/both of those...no matter what you say.

I figured as much. You got it all figured out. Me, the government, the Chinese, everything.

Quote
Dealing with them one at a time:

1: Modelling done from over a month ago - means NOTHING to me. There have been a TON of COMPLETELY erroneous models during this 'pandemic'. They have almost zero cred with me.
2 & 3: nothing but guessing and speculation with zero hard facts.
4: It's funded ENTIRELY by the Chinese government(s), it's on a small group of people, it's funded by the Chinese government, the conclusions were virtually non-existent and it's funded by the Chinese government. The latter have a vested interest in being able to control their people through fear of COVID-19. Enough said.

As for Herd Immunity?
There is ZERO, unbiased, factual proof that herd immunity cannot happen.
ZERO.

We will learn in a few months (possibly). There is ZERO point in keeping the lockdown going (other then fear and political/bureaucratic ego) without definitive evidence.

We already know that COVID-19 has a similar death rate to the seasonal flu:
https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/17/1000113/up-to-4-of-silicon-valley-already-infected-with-coronavirus/

Plus, Sweden has already proven (as I posted links above) that lockdowns were TOTALLY wrong (except for the weak and/or old farts) and that their death rate is lower than many European countries (whereas according to the 'experts' - it should be higher than EVERYONE'S).

Not going into this as you'll just deny or twist figures to suit your narrative.  We were done with the discussion, remember?

Quote
This whole, fucking thing will be proven by history to be GALACTICALLY overblown.

You may know this for certain, i do not. But i hope you're absolutely right. And i hope governments worldwide will appropriately adjust policy in line with the latest scientific insights.

Quote
And don't bother responding with your 127 different quote responses. Other then links - I will not waste my time reading them as it's painfully obvious that your mind is either closed on the matter and/or you just have some huge desire for endless debating. I genuinely do not know which it is.

Have a nice day.

Oh, sorry about that, i kept it to just 5, that's okay?

So yea, my post regarding herd immunity wasn't intended for you (notice the lack of your name in the post...), nor are my future posts where your name does not appear.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 17, 2020, 10:07:01 pm
Why are you even replying to me, I thought you were done...?


These articles and related research describe the problem with focusing on herd immunity.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/05/11/science.abb5793
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766097
https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047365v2

Wow - you seem just dying to keep the shutdown going for as long as possible.

Nope, not at all, i think it's stupid as a continued policy, as i've stated right from the start, it's good as an emergency precaution in light of little to no data.
I'm just here for the science, not to discuss your politics.

Quote
I wonder if it is due to fear or your just love government's controlling us. Clearly it is one/both of those...no matter what you say.

I figured as much. You got it all figured out. Me, the government, the Chinese, everything.

Quote
Dealing with them one at a time:

1: Modelling done from over a month ago - means NOTHING to me. There have been a TON of COMPLETELY erroneous models during this 'pandemic'. They have almost zero cred with me.
2 & 3: nothing but guessing and speculation with zero hard facts.
4: It's funded ENTIRELY by the Chinese government(s), it's on a small group of people, it's funded by the Chinese government, the conclusions were virtually non-existent and it's funded by the Chinese government. The latter have a vested interest in being able to control their people through fear of COVID-19. Enough said.

As for Herd Immunity?
There is ZERO, unbiased, factual proof that herd immunity cannot happen.
ZERO.

We will learn in a few months (possibly). There is ZERO point in keeping the lockdown going (other then fear and political/bureaucratic ego) without definitive evidence.

We already know that COVID-19 has a similar death rate to the seasonal flu:
https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/17/1000113/up-to-4-of-silicon-valley-already-infected-with-coronavirus/

Plus, Sweden has already proven (as I posted links above) that lockdowns were TOTALLY wrong (except for the weak and/or old farts) and that their death rate is lower than many European countries (whereas according to the 'experts' - it should be higher than EVERYONE'S).

Not going into this as you'll just deny or twist figures to suit your narrative.  We were done with the discussion, remember?

Quote
This whole, fucking thing will be proven by history to be GALACTICALLY overblown.

You may know this for certain, i do not. But i hope you're absolutely right. And i hope governments worldwide will appropriately adjust policy in line with the latest scientific insights.

Quote
And don't bother responding with your 127 different quote responses. Other then links - I will not waste my time reading them as it's painfully obvious that your mind is either closed on the matter and/or you just have some huge desire for endless debating. I genuinely do not know which it is.

Have a nice day.

Oh, sorry about that, i kept it to just 5, that's okay?

So yea, my post regarding herd immunity wasn't intended for you (notice the lack of your name in the post...), nor are my future posts where your name does not appear.
A typical KwukDuck reply...long on multi-quotes.
Completely bereft on links.
I didn't read any of it - but I saw no links...and that was that.

BTW, here is a link to an article about fucking old farts:

How the COVID-19 Lockdowns Will Increase Resentment of the Elderly
https://mises.org/library/how-covid-19-lockdowns-will-increase-resentment-elderly

These selfish, mostly useless people. Once past about 80 - almost ALL of them are good for almost NOTHING. Sure, they have 'wisdom'. Then they should write a book/make a video and share their wisdom. And once that is done. They should off themselves...especially if they are taking taxpayer money to survive.
 And I am NOT in ANY WAY talking about the government killing them. That would be barbaric.
And instead of saying; 'don't destroy your economies for us'.? Which an honorable person would.
Most of them - and their fucking relatives who don't want to see their semi-useless grandad dead - are crying out for more help...even if it means millions have to suffer.
 
If I were old - I would not want the government to lift one extra finger for me. And I CERTAINLY would not want them to destroy thousands of businesses and ruin tens of millions of people's lives just so my useless carcass could survive for another few years of uselessness.

 The entire world economy is heading into a depression - almost entirely so a bunch of useless, old farts can live a few, pathetic years longer.
 I hope this starts a discussion that old people past 80 should OFF themselves - healthy or not. 80 is long enough. Especially if you are on government assistance. You cannot have fun at 80...at least I couldn't.
 If old farts off'd themselves at 80 - think of the gigantic amounts of tax dollars that would be saved on healthcare and welfare? Just to keep these barely functioning loads of skin in existence so they can take even more money from the young to keep them alive longer.
 I have thought this for MANY years.
Old people should kill themselves at 80.
And governments should not give a PENNY to anyone over 80. Or let them legally drive. Or vote. Once you turn 80 - you are a legal non-person (unless you perpetrate a crime or one is perpetrated on you). If they want to live longer and need money to do it? They can get help from charities/families.
 And COVID-19 would be a blip because the VAST majority of the people it kills are sick, weak old people.
 Sorry, but destroying the world economy and causing untold misery to untold hundreds of millions of people JUST to keep a few, mostly useless, REALLY old/sick people alive a few years longer is just not wise. It is a terrible trade-off.
 If children were the ones dying? Then absolutely save them at almost any cost.
But people over 80?
Sorry...nope...not worth it to me. And I would say exactly the same thing were I approaching 80.
 

No doubt anyone who reads this will disagree. And little doubt almost anyone who reads this is either low IQ'd and/or weak. At least judging by most of the posts I have read so far in this thread, on this site principally inhabited by far too many men who seem to hate women.
 Of course, most humans outside of Sweden seem so stupid/cowardly that they are for the lockdowns.
 Too bad they all were not as smart as I am (my IQ is a government-tested 125) and/or as strong of a believer in individual freedom as I (and people at the Mises institute) do and/or had a spine (like I do).

If medical science keeps finding ways to keep old people alive for longer and longer (yet still inactive)? Eventually, we will have to deal with this problem and find a solution. And encouraging self-termination/stop giving people over 80 any government, financial assistance seems as good a solution as any.

And I am not alone in thinking this /similarly:
https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-texas-dan-patrick-seniors-die-economy-20200324-i5wmsqgxdfbdboq72ohlwxgyue-story.html
https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/25/dj-says-elderly-people-sacrifice-coronavirus-save-economy-12454758/
(though I realize Glenn Beck is hardly the cream of the human crop).

Good day.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 17, 2020, 10:50:17 pm
Moderators please stop this guy and his Nazi eugenics and revoke his membership.
One - eugenics was started by Plato. Get your facts straight.
BTW, I despise NAZI'S. The Holocaust was an abomination.
And I am going to ask you to stop referring to me as a Nazi. A relative of mine was killed by them.

Two - now we see what you are really like.
Instead of allowing people free speech - you want viewpoints you don't like to be censored.
So you are against free speech.
 You could just not read my posts since they obviously disturb you SO much.
But no - you want me wiped from this board.
Now whom is performing eugenics (on a 'chat forum' scale)?
You cannot take opinions you don't like - so you try to get those people muzzled.

You are proving to be EXACTLY what I thought you were.

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 17, 2020, 11:43:45 pm
Eugenics is when you define unworthy life that does not deserve to live anymore. Exactly what you did. Nazis did it on great scale level. The same as you demand.

You are a Nazi. Period.

I did not say what I was talking about was not eugenics...duh.
Eugenics was first proposed by Plato and the word 'eugenics' was coined in 1883...NOT Nazi Germany. Get your history right.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eugenics
And here are other people who were for different types of eugenics - not saying I agree with them.
https://allthatsinteresting.com/eugenics-movement
And I said I despise Nazi's and a relative of mine was killed by them and I am going to ask you again to please stop calling me a Nazi.
Call me an asshole, a jerk, sick...whatever. BUT NOT A NAZI, please.

See the difference between us?
I ask you to stop calling me something.
You try to have me muzzled because you don't like what I say.
One is a request.
The other is attempted censorship.

Have a nice day.

Now...back to COVID-19...
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 18, 2020, 12:00:24 am
You ask of euthanasia of old people that are weak to favor young and strong people. This is exactly eugenics.

So I rightfully call you a Nazi. You deserve this title by what you write.

Wrong twice.
1) I am NOT calling for euthanasia. You clearly do not even know what it means.
I am saying that people over 80 should no longer be eligible for government assistance. And (IMO) they should kill themselves - not by law...by choice. If I ever make it to 80 - I will DEFINITELY off myself.
That is NOT euthanasia.
 Christ - look up what words mean before you use them.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/euthanasia

2) I never denied that what I am talking about is eugenics. How many times do I have to say it before it gets through your head?

And I said I despise Nazi's and a relative of mine was killed by them and I am going to ask you again to please stop calling me a Nazi.

You would deliberately call someone who lost a relative to the Nazi's...a Nazi?
Pretty sad.

This has gotten WAY off topic - so I suggest we continue this in PM's if you insist on going this route.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 18, 2020, 12:39:09 am

The one number of car accident is for a complete life over all US citizens.
The other number he presents is for 1 occurrence of the disease of 1 child.
WRONG. 🤣 Don't you even know what 'odds' mean?
The odds of the average American dying during their life in a car crash is 106:1 (as stated by NSC).
The odds of a child dying during their life of Kawasaki Disease (IF they got it and if they are properly treated) in America is 600:1 against.
What part of this INCREDIBLY simple premise is your brain having trouble working out?
🤣
https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/all-injuries/preventable-death-overview/odds-of-dying/
https://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/pediatrics/miscellaneous-disorders-in-infants-and-children/kawasaki-disease

But okay - you want a larger set of odds?
There are 4.6 million children in New York State. So far (as of May 5), there are 64 children that have Kawasaki Disease symptoms. Now that is not enough for one to die statistically. So let's say there are 600 and one died (keeping up with the 600:1 odds). That would mean that the odds of a child realistically dying of this Kawasaki-like disease in New York State is about 1 in 4.6 million.
And you want to fucking close all the schools in NY state for those odds?
You are flat out nuts on this if that is what you are suggesting.
https://www.health.ny.gov/press/releases/2020/docs/2020-05-06_covid19_pediatric_inflammatory_syndrome.pdf?ftag=MSF0951a18
http://nccp.org/media/releases/release_12.html

Quote
The new syndrome is called PMIS (Pediatric Multisystem Inflammatory Syndrome). The Kawasaki syndrome numbers are irrelevant for PMIS.
Try and keep up.
'Kawasaki disease can be diagnosed only clinically (i.e., by medical signs and symptoms). No specific laboratory test exists for this condition.'[/b]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kawasaki_disease#Diagnosis
There is NO WAY do test for Kawasaki Disease. None. It is ENTIRELY based on symptoms.

'The condition may match some or all of the diagnostic criteria for Kawasaki disease.'

And the primary treatment of the two is EXACTLY the same - immunoglobulin IV

https://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/pediatrics/miscellaneous-disorders-in-infants-and-children/kawasaki-disease
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paediatric_multisystem_inflammatory_syndrome

There has been NO scientific proof that the two diseases are not identical.

Quote
Additionally once again he ignores that France already had the first COVID-19 case in December '19 with likely infections going strong undiscovered and uncontrolled for a long time like 3 months, with enough time to be present in every corner of France, causing the high death rates. Same for Italy and Spain.

🤦‍♂️Hello? Do you even know what 'death rate' means?
It has NOTHING to do with now many people got infected. It is a percentage.
🤦‍♂️
It is irrelevant how many people got COVID-19 in determining the death rate. If a nation got 10,000 or 1,000,000 cases, the death rates should be similar if all other things are generally equal.
 The fact that Spain AND the UK AND France AND the Netherlands AND Belgium ALL have higher death rates than Sweden categorically proves that there is NO proof that locking down younger/healthy people lowers the death rate compared to not locking them down.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 18, 2020, 12:49:16 am
Not providing help to old people and this coordinated and by regulations IS a form of euthanasia.

The more I read your posts...the less intelligent/educated you seem.
No offense.

Class in session

'Definition of euthanasia
: the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals '

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/euthanasia

Earth to your brain...a person has to be 'hopelessly sick or injured' for it to qualify as euthanasia.

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Class dismissed.

Anyway...hopefully now we can get back to the subject...COVID-19.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 18, 2020, 02:47:08 am
And what you lockdown lovers seem either to miss or simply do not care about?

Is that lockdowns are against the Constitution.

The First Amendment

'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.'

It is flat out against the law to prohibit people from going to church OR to peacefully assemble. Both are being violated.

Not that you knuckleheads care about that. All you spineless sheep care about is that you feel a little safer.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Ricksanchez6 on May 18, 2020, 04:48:26 am
And what you lockdown lovers seem either to miss or simply do not care about?

Is that lockdowns are against the Constitution.

The First Amendment

'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.'

It is flat out against the law to prohibit people from going to church OR to peacefully assemble. Both are being violated.

Not that you knuckleheads care about that. All you spineless sheep care about is that you feel a little safer.

My dude stop being such a tool. This isn't about destroying your AMERICAN freedom lol. This is about public health. Chill out and do your part to prevent deaths that could otherwise be prevented. It's like getting the flu shot every year. The flu doesn't kill healthy people usually but the point is that if the vast majority get vaccinated, those who are more vulnerable have a greater chance of not getting sick and dying.

Imagine you have a family member going through chemo and they have a compromised immune system. How shitty would you feel if you gave them a PREVENTABLE disease that ended up killing them? How angry would you be if you did everything you could to keep your vulnerable family member safe but some other person spread the disease because they only cared about "their freedom"?

But nah instead you talk like a dumb American that only cares about their "rights" that were "given" to them by some guys 250 years ago. So what? The government of 250 years ago said something so now things can never be changed? That's not how it works. Would you still be complaining if the writers of the constitution had specifically included the right for a government lock down in case of a pandemic? I think you would....


Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Ermagherd on May 18, 2020, 07:15:39 am
And what you lockdown lovers seem either to miss or simply do not care about?

Is that lockdowns are against the Constitution.

The First Amendment

'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.'

It is flat out against the law to prohibit people from going to church OR to peacefully assemble. Both are being violated.

Not that you knuckleheads care about that. All you spineless sheep care about is that you feel a little safer.


Jumping in for the sake of discussion-

The first amendment wasn’t written with global pandemics in mind. What about those of us with cancer survivors in our immediate family?

I don’t wear a mask because I’m concerned about dying, I’m 22. It’s so that MY actions don’t harm my family, or the family of others. So what if i’m being careful? Am I a sheep because I don’t want others’ blood on my own hands?

And yeah. As an American centrist, it fucking sucks seeing businesses get dicked over because they’re forced to stay closed. And maybe we ARE being too careful, and hospitals are overreporting death tolls-

But don’t you think the ramifications of being too loose are greater than the ramifications of being too careful?

Your opinion of older folks is pretty alarming by the way. Did you ever have a good relationship with your grandparents or other old folks? I’m restoring a classic car with an older neighbor in my free time and I’d hate anything bad to happen to him, let alone hosting an illness bred from someone else’s self centered ignorance.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: poot222 on May 18, 2020, 09:03:11 am
Ahh, a centrist. You can listen to reason, and weight it yourself.

The first amendment wasn’t written with global pandemics in mind.
Correct. in fact, none of the bill of rights were put in place with anything except common sense (read: self-evident) in play. Although I would note that denying a standing army, making sure the State could never promote or deny a religion, and arming the citizenry were probably based on recent experiences and success.
 
>> I don’t wear a mask because I’m concerned about dying, I’m 22. It’s so that MY actions don’t harm my family, or the family of others. So what if i’m being careful? Am I a sheep because I don’t want others’ blood on my own hands?
No, you are a sheep for standing in the rain instead of under a balcony when it's raining, because the Xs on the sidewalk are in the rain. You are a sheep if you separate your vehicles by 6 feet at a public dump while waiting in line, because that is what the rules say. We have a country full of fucking idiots. Let us not forget why we are, in fact, NOT a democracy.

If you make a decision to protect yourself or others, cool. What you cannot do, is decide what protects other people and then FORCE them to do it by removing their rights. Govt's that support that have a built in constitutional provision made just for them. We kill them.

>> But don’t you think the ramifications of being too loose are greater than the ramifications of being too careful?
No, not at all. It kills at about the same rate as the flu, at this point. We were lied to, repeatedly, about the impact and its spread-ability. It is not Ebola. Fucking communist Chinese gov't trying to hide their own shortcomings, and then fearmongers in the US raining non-stop propaganda on us about how deadly it is. We have an entire political party here overjoyed that our economy is going to shit. We do not need a shutdown any longer. Operating with precautions in place is effective. Unless we overwhelm the medical system, it is not actually that fatal. It is contagious like a MoFo, but not overly deadly. This actually seems to be more relevant to population density (with some outliers), offset by public/gov't response, and medical system maturity, rather than any precipitous drop in cases even weeks after we collectively closed up shop.

>> Your opinion of older folks is pretty alarming by the way.
He is on his own on that one. I am making deliveries to my elderly pals and business associates. I am not going to do nothing, if I can help in a meaningful way. What is appropriate is, I am not forcing anyone else to do the same, good idea or not.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: poot222 on May 18, 2020, 09:16:25 am
This guy is from Sweden.
This board is dutch.
I am German, we have a constitution made after WW2, also in an attempt no not make Nazis possible again.
We even have laws to prevent Nazis, to avoid spread their propaganda (eugenics and euthanasia) again.
How does he think the US constitution is of any additional help here for him?
Maybe your constitutional framers should have paid more attention. The US Constitution is, in general, the guideline that the rest of the planet used to shrug off the centuries of religious kingship bullshit controls that the rest of Europe kept eating by the platefull. It took a while to put together and argue out, by well-studied men, and has held up thus far. It is the root of all true social justice.

We never had a problem like the Nazi party brought to the table for DE because we have an armed citizenry. Germans pre-WW2 were fucking stupid enough to give up those rights because they believed it brought them protection. Worked about as well for y'all as it has for any country that has done the same. Freedom of speech is messy, it is only part of the package. The general theme is the belief that you, as the person paying for it, are most likely to handle it best, is why so much responsibility is still placed in our hands. You guys just lost sight of the balance in play, fucked it up for yourself. Imagine the world power Germany could have been if they were able to admit that micromanagement of the individual just stalls societal development. I might actually speak German for a reason other than a hobby.

You decide you wanna give that personal responsibility thing a try, there are still lots of red states full of opportunity left here.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 18, 2020, 03:11:18 pm
And what you lockdown lovers seem either to miss or simply do not care about?

Is that lockdowns are against the Constitution.

The First Amendment

'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.'

It is flat out against the law to prohibit people from going to church OR to peacefully assemble. Both are being violated.

Not that you knuckleheads care about that. All you spineless sheep care about is that you feel a little safer.

My dude stop being such a tool. This isn't about destroying your AMERICAN freedom lol. This is about public health. Chill out and do your part to prevent deaths that could otherwise be prevented. It's like getting the flu shot every year. The flu doesn't kill healthy people usually but the point is that if the vast majority get vaccinated, those who are more vulnerable have a greater chance of not getting sick and dying.

Imagine you have a family member going through chemo and they have a compromised immune system. How shitty would you feel if you gave them a PREVENTABLE disease that ended up killing them? How angry would you be if you did everything you could to keep your vulnerable family member safe but some other person spread the disease because they only cared about "their freedom"?

But nah instead you talk like a dumb American that only cares about their "rights" that were "given" to them by some guys 250 years ago. So what? The government of 250 years ago said something so now things can never be changed? That's not how it works. Would you still be complaining if the writers of the constitution had specifically included the right for a government lock down in case of a pandemic? I think you would....




It doesn't matter. Human rights cannot be taken away because of a virus that is no more deadly than the flu.
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/486224-covid-flu-lockdown-strategy/

And how could someone on chemo die from COVID-19 if they are in quarantine? That makes no sense at all.

Also, many cancer screenings, diagnosis and treatments are being delayed by COVID-19. So lots of people are getting sicker and possibly dying because of the lockdowns.

https://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2020/04/21/how-coronavirus-is-impacting-cancer-services-in-the-uk/

But I guess you don't care about them, huh?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 18, 2020, 03:18:21 pm
And what you lockdown lovers seem either to miss or simply do not care about?

Is that lockdowns are against the Constitution.

The First Amendment

'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.'

It is flat out against the law to prohibit people from going to church OR to peacefully assemble. Both are being violated.

Not that you knuckleheads care about that. All you spineless sheep care about is that you feel a little safer.


Jumping in for the sake of discussion-

The first amendment wasn’t written with global pandemics in mind. What about those of us with cancer survivors in our immediate family?

I don’t wear a mask because I’m concerned about dying, I’m 22. It’s so that MY actions don’t harm my family, or the family of others. So what if i’m being careful? Am I a sheep because I don’t want others’ blood on my own hands?

And yeah. As an American centrist, it fucking sucks seeing businesses get dicked over because they’re forced to stay closed. And maybe we ARE being too careful, and hospitals are overreporting death tolls-

But don’t you think the ramifications of being too loose are greater than the ramifications of being too careful?

Your opinion of older folks is pretty alarming by the way. Did you ever have a good relationship with your grandparents or other old folks? I’m restoring a classic car with an older neighbor in my free time and I’d hate anything bad to happen to him, let alone hosting an illness bred from someone else’s self centered ignorance.

1) This 'global Pandemic' is nothing worse then the flu.
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/486224-covid-flu-lockdown-strategy/

2) The Constitution says NO WHERE that the First Amendment can be overridden by illness/disease. Only cowards want to allow the government to take away our rights for a virus. I am not a coward. And I am willing to die of COVID-19 (I am middle aged) rather then let our rights be taken from us.

3) If a person who is in danger from COVID-19 is living with you - then the government should be making arrangements for them to be quarantined somewhere else (at the government's expense).
 My point is that locking down people that are not in danger is asinine. And Sweden (which is not locking down, yet their death rate is lower than many other European countries) has proven that it is not effective at lowering the death rate.
What should have been done is suggest that all those in danger, self-quarantine (and the government could help them) and let everyone else live their lives as normal.
It would have not raised the death rate at ALL. It would not have destroyed the economy. And it would have saved trillions of dollars. And it would not have violated the Constitution/Bill Of Rights.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

4) Some of my best friends are seniors - they are a delight to speak with as they seem more wise and calm then most people. That changes nothing. Poor people past 80 cannot financially contribute to society (except in rare cases). And they take huge chunks of taxpayer money just to keep them alive. That is selfish. I would NEVER do that.
 And no senior should want to see the world go into depression just to save themselves. Especially knowing that the lockdowns are causing tremendous pain and suffering for healthy people/the young.
 The lockdowns of healthy people under 60 are WRONG.

Finally, your points sound reasonable...I applaud you for that.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 18, 2020, 03:24:07 pm
Not providing help to old people and this coordinated and by regulations IS a form of euthanasia.

The more I read your posts...the less intelligent/educated you seem.
No offense.

Class in session

'Definition of euthanasia
: the act or practice of killing or permitting the death of hopelessly sick or injured individuals '

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/euthanasia

Earth to your brain...a person has to be 'hopelessly sick or injured' for it to qualify as euthanasia.

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

Class dismissed.

Anyway...hopefully now we can get back to the subject...COVID-19.

This is not correct if you go beyond a dictionary. But as before you turn as you want to continue with your Nazi euthanasia and eugenics fantasies propaganda here on the board.

And immediately stop sending me PM's. I despise Nazis and I certainly don't want to receive PM's from them.

This guy is from Sweden.
This board is dutch.
I am German, we have a constitution made after WW2, also in an attempt no not make Nazis possible again.
We even have laws to prevent Nazis, to avoid spread their propaganda (eugenics and euthanasia) again.
How does he think the US constitution is of any additional help here for him?

And I don't like talking with people who love abortion and killing babies in women...even at full term. But what are you going to do?

And if you go beyond the dictionary? Are you delusional? So now you are choosing to make words mean whatever you wish. SO what does a banana now mean to you? An apple?
 ;D ;D
You have to be dying/in great pain to be euthanized. Healthy people cannot be euthanized...that is just murder/suicide.

'euthanasia
 
​the practice of killing without pain a person or animal who is suffering from a disease that cannot be cured.'


https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/euthanasia

DUH.

Anyway, this is off topic again. You want to make up your own definitions for words? GO ahead.

Let's see how far that gets you.

Have a nice day, baby murderer.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 18, 2020, 03:33:05 pm
Imagine the world power Germany could have been if they were able to admit that micromanagement of the individual just stalls societal development. I might actually speak German for a reason other than a hobby.


The only one that really want this to wide extend in Germany are right wing extremist and Nazi parties. They want to restore the proud former glory 1933-1945. This is their understanding of German patriots.

That's why these don't understand European Union and a strong United Nations. And so do others without the Nazi experience in their history..

Edit: The only ones that want to a wide extend firearms and even heavier weapons available for private use in Germany are right extremists and Nazi parties. Friends from Texas relocated with their children to Germany because it is safe here and they didn't want to raise their childs in a hostile environment. But I know this is only one case report and not to generalize.

Those people that have the least understanding of personalized responsibility are the COVIDIOTS currently protesting in thousands, without distancing, without mouth nose protective and organized, supported and visited by known right extremists, Nazis and conspiracy mystics.

Prove it.

Show us links to unbiased, factual proof that every member of the NRA in America is a Nazi/right wing extremist? You do realize that LOTS of Democrats/'leftists' are in the NRA (National Rifle Association)?

The more you type - the more mentally unbalanced you sound to me.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: nhb2007noo on May 18, 2020, 04:08:58 pm
"2) The Constitution says NO WHERE that the First Amendment can be overridden by illness/disease."

It is true that the Constitution does not say this. But the Bill of Rights have consistently been interpreted to give way to "reasonableness" restrictions and in the face of "national emergencies." And the Constitution is not where you find out what counts as constitutional. Long ago, Justice Marshall won the day on that argument when he commented: "It is a Constitution that we are expounding." (McCullough v. MD.) The nutshell: the US Supreme Court gets to be the final word on what the Constitution means.

The first limiting principle is embodied by Oliver Wendell Holmes's idea that your right to free speech does not give you the right to yell fire in a crowded theater in Schneck v. US. The second limiting principle is tad bit murkier but the President has the authority to act under any power previously enumerated by Congress. This comes from Youngstown Sheet and Tube. Hence, you need to look at the National Emergencies Act (1976), which basically says that you don't get to go to church for a little while and so you should just get comfortable with that idea instead of opining about constitutional law which apparently you don't know very much about.

And as this poor schmuck learned the hard way, sometimes you're better off not being so opinionated about your supposed fundamental rights: https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-church-california-mothers-day-20200518-2dht2ys4bjgpfehczy36izgi6u-story.html

You just might discover that you're wrong in more ways than one.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Indy on May 18, 2020, 04:43:57 pm
About the whole amendment discussion:

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Indy on May 18, 2020, 05:02:15 pm
Anyway, I guess I need to step in here as this discussion is getting quite heated.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, people are very likely to have different opinions that others do not agree with. That is fine, regardless of how wrong you feel the other is.
This forum tries to keep discussions as open as possible, but freedom of speech has its limits depending on where you are. Same for our forum, we have our rules, stick to it.

You are free to have an argument, but do not stupor to insults. That's just lashing out because you can't come up with a better argument.
I will not remove the insults thrown before, as it just shows their lack of skill to have an argument. I did however return text sizes to normal since I don't want to risk eye-cancer in reading that.

So, keep it civilized.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: TickleTheo on May 18, 2020, 08:00:17 pm
Man, this thread devolved pretty quick.

I might as well throw my thoughts and experience in the last few months of sheltering in place.

4 weeks ago, I had relatives on social media "sharing" videos of how empty the hospital ER's was in Cali. Those same videos showed how freaking empty all the main streets were and how it looked like how mostly everyone was adhering to the shelter in place orders.

What did this show? Shelter in place slowed the spread significantly in Cali and some people saw this was a sign that the virus wasn't as deadly as proclaimed even though NY was having bodies piled into freaking refrigerator trucks.

Some people kept making the point that this virus only kills as much as the common flu. This is wrong. This virus is more deadly than the common flu, and it is a virus ONTOP of the common flu which we have seasonly. Look at it this way, Covid-19 is on track to kill at least 200k American's by the end of 2020. The 62k common flu death number that is flung around is based on the worst flu season ever. We are 4 months into Covid-19 and we've got 90+k dead, and that is with sheltering in place to slow it's spread.

So do we keep sheltering in place? Well. It isn't practical to shelter in place till a vaccine is developed, but the Federal government sure isn't helping in containing the virus. In fact, it has actively promoted spreading it and pushing misinformation. We need testing and contact tracing to get some measure of control on the outbreaks if we ever want some normality to return. It seems unless you're insanely well connected or extremely wealthy, regular testing just isn't' something most of us can expect anytime soon sadly.

Why is there such a disparity and division that is so partisan with Covid-19? I don't think most regular people have had this much misinformation thrown at them for so long and frankly, I think it has been wearing their sense of what a functioning Federal Government is supposed to look like. That and I'm of the mindset that those that doubt how serious Covid-19 actually is don't have relatives/friends that work in the medical field that would have to deal with a large influx of new cases.

If they actually had skin in the game, [actual family members in the line of fire] they wouldn't be pushing the crap that I've seen pushed.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: KwukDuck on May 18, 2020, 08:48:10 pm
Some people kept making the point that this virus only kills as much as the common flu. This is wrong. This virus is more deadly than the common flu, and it is a virus ONTOP of the common flu which we have seasonly. Look at it this way, Covid-19 is on track to kill at least 200k American's by the end of 2020. The 62k common flu death number that is flung around is based on the worst flu season ever. We are 4 months into Covid-19 and we've got 90+k dead, and that is with sheltering in place to slow it's spread.

It may not be exactly on top of the common flu. If covid-19 takes out a large portion of those that would have come victim to the common flu this year, then this may turn out to be less of an increase than a simple addition.

But yea, i don't understand why people keep saying it's just the common flu or it's just as deadly, it's clearly not, not by any statistics, not in the US, not in Europe. Death rate will likely be adjusted downwards (hopefully) as testing becomes more prevalent and we get a better picture of how many are actually infected and asymptomatic or only show mild symptoms.

It's a difficult comparison to get a clear picture of the situation, facts vs epidemiological estimates.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: TickleTheo on May 18, 2020, 09:58:59 pm
It may not be exactly on top of the common flu. If covid-19 takes out a large portion of those that would have come victim to the common flu this year, then this may turn out to be less of an increase than a simple addition.

But yea, i don't understand why people keep saying it's just the common flu or it's just as deadly, it's clearly not, not by any statistics, not in the US, not in Europe. Death rate will likely be adjusted downwards (hopefully) as testing becomes more prevalent and we get a better picture of how many are actually infected and asymptomatic or only show mild symptoms.

It's a difficult comparison to get a clear picture of the situation, facts vs epidemiological estimates.

Well, the reason why I say it is on top of the flu is the common flu is still going around. So you will get people that think they got Covid-19 that test negative for it and positive for just normal flu. So it is just another layer on to the cake of things that hospitals need to deal with.

There seems to be some train of thought that this will just take out the weak/old, it is more likely that it will depend on your level of exposure / viral load you get initially.

If you get unlucky and get a massive dose to start. Your body will have to not only fight what gets infected, but what multiplies as the virus replicates. This is why the N95 respirators are key for frontline workers, if they get exposed to too high a load, you get dead healthcare workers that didn't sign up for this.

If you are lucky and get a low dose, you are likely to become an asymptomatic carrier for a while which isn't bad for you, just bad for every person you come in contact with to infect and pass along the virus to. You get enough people in close proximity that are also asymptomatic carriers and voila. You've got a few people exposed with a high enough dose to give even a healthy person problems fighting off.  Hence why the meatpacking plants have been hit hard. This is also why you see nursing homes racking up the largest portion of deaths, you've lots of people with less than stellar immune systems living in close proximity. Basically a death sentence if even one person in a nursing home gets infected and starts passing it on to the residents of the nursing home.

Also, this is why reopening schools might not be in our best interest, at least if you value your teachers living through this pandemic. The kids might make it through ok, but you get enough asymptomatic kids, we'll likely get dead teachers to go along with our dead healthcare workers and so on.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: poot222 on May 18, 2020, 10:42:29 pm
About the whole amendment discussion:
"You cannot change the 2nd amendment"

Did anyone actually say that in this discussion? Looks like a straw man.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: poot222 on May 18, 2020, 11:13:16 pm
4 weeks ago, I had relatives on social media "sharing" videos of how empty the hospital ER's was in Cali. Those same videos showed how freaking empty all the main streets were and how it looked like how mostly everyone was adhering to the shelter in place orders.
Logical fallacy. The empty rooms are the result of actions 2+ weeks prior, not the same day. I think it is good we pumped the brakes a bit to get people's attention. I do not believe that a lockdown is a successful strategy, and time will bear that out. Distancing, masks, and reasonable accommodations to daily life will win this.

Quote
What did this show? Shelter in place slowed the spread significantly in Cali and some people saw this was a sign that the virus wasn't as deadly as proclaimed even though NY was having bodies piled into freaking refrigerator trucks.
Statistics would show that, not incidentals. Note how you framed your argument and changed it completely when talking about NY deaths. By the same logic used here, I could say that NY's lockdown resulted in refrigerators full of dead people. It did not. Prior weeks' activity did. The proximity and silent spreading (namely population density and a lack of cleanliness prevailing in the culture) is the more reasonable culprit.

Quote
Some people kept making the point that this virus only kills as much as the common flu. This is wrong.
It /is/ wrong. It seems to be killing less. I understand why you say "more" because so did I, at first. You are basing your death rates on testing results (which vary rom state to state) and in general, those were only being used in the beginning (when available) on cases they were fairly certain of. Meanwhile, random spot testing shows 20-25% of the adults in LA county already had the virus present and defeated. This exceeds the spread rate of the flu by several fold. The flu (which is a slow, fully symptomatic spreader) usually only hits 5%+ per year. It is much different than a coronavirus, which is a type of cold, and they are prolific spreaders and evolvers. Meaning damn near everyone will probably have this before we are through. Possibly more than once. And with an infection rate 20x greater than the flu, yeah, deaths will be higher.

The issue with death rate reporting is a whole separate discussion. Different states are handling it differently, based in financial incentives for Chinese virus deaths. Even positive testing does not indicate a true death. For example, 4 gunshot victims in LA county have a statistical likelihood that one of them has the virus. Is it a covid death? No, BUT it still requires the higher level decontamination procedures. The only way to get that money is to report it as a CV death. There is also the "soft cost" on deaths. For example, it is deadly primarily to people who are old, and have existing health issues. But then again, so is literally any activity or infection, so not a factor strictly in play with this pandemic. But what it is doing, is culling people who would very likely have died in the next 5 years. So our overall death rates for the next 5 years will probably go down. No, that does not mean I am OK with killng old people who are going to die anyways. We all are. No argument there.

Quote
So do we keep sheltering in place? Well. It isn't practical to shelter in place till a vaccine is developed, but the Federal government sure isn't helping in containing the virus. In fact, it has actively promoted spreading it and pushing misinformation.
So is our media. If you are referring to sound bites where Trump said eat tide pods to cure the Kung Flu, go back and read the transcript and listen to the dialog. The businessman is spitballing tactics that might work. He is not a doctor, but he is a problem solver, and sometimes peole who are not well versed are an excellent source for ideas that the Professors overlooked. See how the W engine was developed for the VW. A CEO wrote it on a napkin. Crazy idea. It was developed. Worked. If you believe that the prexy thought injecting bleach was a solution, we probably have nothing further to discuss on the topic. If you understand that he saw UV sterilization as an effective method and said "why don't we try that in the lungs" then you are indeed thinking for yourself. This is how businessmen get things done. You try ideas, and they either work, or they do not. If those doctors could do it better, they already would have. or THEY would be president, not sitting there taking orders. I might be biased. I have been the CEO.

Also, it is not the federal gov't job to reach into your daily life and cure a cold for you. In fact, legally there is not much it can do. Your state is better prepared for that, the feds con only release funds.

Quote
We need testing and contact tracing to get some measure of control on the outbreaks if we ever want some normality to return.
Yes, which is exactly what Texas has done. Massive increases in testing, coupled with re-opening and 4,000 Health Poilice officers who are supposed to handle tracing. This worked for South Korea. It is a good plan. Hopefully executed well in TX.

Quote
It seems unless you're insanely well connected or extremely wealthy, regular testing just isn't' something most of us can expect anytime soon sadly.
*Citation needed.

Quote
Why is there such a disparity and division that is so partisan with Covid-19?
Because people like an echo chamber. We spend a lot of time listening to how we are supposed to think. It is a lot of work to have to read, evaluate, and form your own opinions. Note that I have stated in this reply post, I have done so. Most people will not. The second issue is the polarity. One side wants zero restrictions, one wants total lockdown. Neither is the correct answer.

Quote
If they actually had skin in the game, [actual family members in the line of fire] they wouldn't be pushing the crap that I've seen pushed.
By the same argument, your closeness to the subject and the inherent risks to those you care about can *also* sway your opinions away from the facts. It can be deadly, it spreads like mad, we may never be immune to it. Much like damn near every single day of our normal lives. You have to find a personal balance and not trample on the rights of others. Again, like everyday life.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: TickleTheo on May 19, 2020, 12:33:54 am
Logical fallacy. The empty rooms are the result of actions 2+ weeks prior, not the same day. I think it is good we pumped the brakes a bit to get people's attention. I do not believe that a lockdown is a successful strategy, and time will bear that out. Distancing, masks, and reasonable accommodations to daily life will win this.

Lockdown was never a strategy. It was meant as a way to flatten the curve and give the government enough to grasp control of the outbreaks and stamp them out. Then apply distancing, masks and reasonable accomadation to daily life. Of which instead of attempting that route, the Federal Government seems trying to push herd immunity or the let's blame China game while we're still having to deal with a pandemic. I'm all for blaming China after we've got our outbreaks under control and a working vaccine is in play. Before that is just stirring up problems and spreading Covid-19 further, which we don't need right now.

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Statistics would show that, not incidentals. Note how you framed your argument and changed it completely when talking about NY deaths. By the same logic used here, I could say that NY's lockdown resulted in refrigerators full of dead people. It did not. Prior weeks' activity did. The proximity and silent spreading (namely population density and a lack of cleanliness prevailing in the culture) is the more reasonable culprit.

What I'm quoting is what various news pieces have stated:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/opinions/california-new-york-covid-19-coronavirus-yang/index.html
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-why-isnt-californias-coronavirus-crisis-as-bad-as-new-yorks-size/
https://www.propublica.org/article/two-coasts-one-virus-how-new-york-suffered-nearly-10-times-the-number-of-deaths-as-california

Cali started their shelter in place just a bit earlier than NY and it made quite the difference in spread and severity.


Quote
It /is/ wrong. It seems to be killing less. I understand why you say "more" because so did I, at first. You are basing your death rates on testing results (which vary rom state to state) and in general, those were only being used in the beginning (when available) on cases they were fairly certain of. Meanwhile, random spot testing shows 20-25% of the adults in LA county already had the virus present and defeated. This exceeds the spread rate of the flu by several fold. The flu (which is a slow, fully symptomatic spreader) usually only hits 5%+ per year. It is much different than a coronavirus, which is a type of cold, and they are prolific spreaders and evolvers. Meaning damn near everyone will probably have this before we are through. Possibly more than once. And with an infection rate 20x greater than the flu, yeah, deaths will be higher.

The issue with death rate reporting is a whole separate discussion. Different states are handling it differently, based in financial incentives for Chinese virus deaths. Even positive testing does not indicate a true death. For example, 4 gunshot victims in LA county have a statistical likelihood that one of them has the virus. Is it a covid death? No, BUT it still requires the higher level decontamination procedures. The only way to get that money is to report it as a CV death. There is also the "soft cost" on deaths. For example, it is deadly primarily to people who are old, and have existing health issues. But then again, so is literally any activity or infection, so not a factor strictly in play with this pandemic. But what it is doing, is culling people who would very likely have died in the next 5 years. So our overall death rates for the next 5 years will probably go down. No, that does not mean I am OK with killng old people who are going to die anyways. We all are. No argument there.

I'm not basing my deaths on death rates of the general populace, I'm basing it on healthcare workers dropping dead to Covid-19. Healthy, decades-long trained workers who aren't easily replaceable.

Quote
So is our media. If you are referring to sound bites where Trump said eat tide pods to cure the Kung Flu, go back and read the transcript and listen to the dialog. The businessman is spitballing tactics that might work. He is not a doctor, but he is a problem solver, and sometimes peole who are not well versed are an excellent source for ideas that the Professors overlooked. See how the W engine was developed for the VW. A CEO wrote it on a napkin. Crazy idea. It was developed. Worked. If you believe that the prexy thought injecting bleach was a solution, we probably have nothing further to discuss on the topic. If you understand that he saw UV sterilization as an effective method and said "why don't we try that in the lungs" then you are indeed thinking for yourself. This is how businessmen get things done. You try ideas, and they either work, or they do not. If those doctors could do it better, they already would have. or THEY would be president, not sitting there taking orders. I might be biased. I have been the CEO.

I'm all for spitballing ideas... in a board room with experts giving me their opinions on the matter. When you're nationally elected leader starts spitballing those ideas of which he's not in any shape or form an expert in on national television, it is no longer spitballing. It is spouting crap you don't know to the masses in hopes that it makes you look like you are leading. Which isn't how leaders lead.

Also using VW as an example, you had an ENGINEER as a CEO that had an idea. Basically someone with expertise and in a leadership position to make it happen.
Quote
Also, it is not the federal gov't job to reach into your daily life and cure a cold for you. In fact, legally there is not much it can do. Your state is better prepared for that, the feds con only release funds.
You don't seem to really understand how much power the Federal Government actually welds or how many agencies it could put into motion or be using at the moment. The response I've been seeing is mostly either inaction or a vapid attempt to line their own pockets with the money we'll be paying in taxes for decades from now.

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Yes, which is exactly what Texas has done. Massive increases in testing, coupled with re-opening and 4,000 Health Poilice officers who are supposed to handle tracing. This worked for South Korea. It is a good plan. Hopefully executed well in TX.
Which would have helped had TX not mostly opened up 2 weeks ago. At this point with exponential spread, I'd see TX locking down again for 3 weeks soon to attempt to rein control back to which contact tracing will work.

Quote
*Citation needed.
I'm looking at the White house/staff and now, sports franchises that are attempting to restart. The current plan for baseball is such that they test all the players/coaches/staff regularly and have them separated long enough to play out the 2020 season. Which means testing about 5-10k people regularly on a weekly basis.

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Because people like an echo chamber. We spend a lot of time listening to how we are supposed to think. It is a lot of work to have to read, evaluate, and form your own opinions. Note that I have stated in this reply post, I have done so. Most people will not. The second issue is the polarity. One side wants zero restrictions, one wants total lockdown. Neither is the correct answer.

I've listened to both sides most of the time, the side on the right has an awful tendency to go either full racist or conspiracy theory or just plain crazy. The left while being mostly reasonable, isn't without its downsides. Most voters these days are just trying to pick the lesser of two evils, not really who they actually like. Most people don't actually like either side.

Quote
By the same argument, your closeness to the subject and the inherent risks to those you care about can *also* sway your opinions away from the facts. It can be deadly, it spreads like mad, we may never be immune to it. Much like damn near every single day of our normal lives. You have to find a personal balance and not trample on the rights of others. Again, like everyday life.
I'm not swayed far from the facts, I just watch what the government is actually doing instead of what they are saying. Actions tend to speak louder than words and this administration has repeatedly kept fumbling around either in inaction rather than leading or actively looking to not take any responsibility when things are looking grim, but will happily take credit when things are looking up.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: TickleTheo on May 19, 2020, 02:27:26 am
Sweet Mary and Joseph. Trump just announced he's been taking hydroxychloroquine for weeks now.

Might as well start taking bets:

http://www.strawpoll.me/20095115

Bets on Trump taking hydroxychloroquine


Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: TickleTheo on May 20, 2020, 08:49:15 pm
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/davidmack/man-shares-photo-before-after-covid-19




Jesus. 6 weeks on a ventilator does that to a healthy person, no wonder if you are older or had lung problems beforehand or any pre-existing condition will Covid-19 kill you.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 21, 2020, 06:49:51 pm
You see you (most of you - not all) COVID-19 knuckleheads?

Now HUNDREDS of doctors are saying how terrible this lockdown is.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/doctors-raise-alarm-about-health-effects-of-continued-coronavirus-shutdown
https://www.scribd.com/document/462319362/A-Doctor-a-Day-Letter-Signed#from_embed

From the letter:

'The millions of casualties of a continued shutdown will be hiding in plain sight, but they will be called alcoholism, homelessness, suicide, heart attack, stroke, or kidney failure. In youths it will be called financial instability, unemployment, despair, drug addiction, unplanned pregnancies, poverty, and abuse.'

But, oh...let me guess? You numbskulls know more than 600+ doctors what is right.
Suuuuuure you do.

Don't bother replying to me - I cannot waste my time reading the frantic blatherings of closed-minded sheep who blindly do whatever government tell them to do. You people make me (unliterally) sick.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 21, 2020, 08:33:45 pm
More information that shows that lockdowns are causing more harm than good (well...duh):

'A new report, “Projected Deaths of Despair During the Coronavirus Recession,” suggests as many as 75,000 Americans could die from “despair” due to unemployment, depression from isolation and fear of the indefinite and uncertain nature of the pandemic.

One of the study’s authors, Benjamin Miller, chief strategy officer for Well Being Trust in Oakland, Calif., said: “Deaths of despair are tied to multiple factors, like unemployment, fear and dread, and isolation. Prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, there were already an unprecedented number of deaths of despair. We wanted to estimate how this pandemic would change that number moving forward.” The study estimates that there could be 75,000 coronavirus-related “deaths of despair” from drug or alcohol abuse and suicide. Miller explained, “The isolation is causing people to lose boundaries on their behaviors. … People have to be working and we have to get people connected to other people.”

About the study, Dr. Elie Aoun, vice chairman of the American Psychiatric Association’s Council on Addiction Psychiatry, said: “I’ve been seeing this in practices and my colleagues have been talking about it, too. … Addiction patients are relapsing, and a lot of patients who don’t have drug use or alcohol problems are drinking more now, sometimes every day from 4 or 5 p.m., and they don’t stop until they sleep.”
'

https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/05/18/experts-expect-rise-in-deaths-from-despair-during-coronavirus-recession/

All you sheep who blindly believe whatever the government/bureaucrats tell you. And you ignore common sense and personal freedoms and liberties.

Just pathetic.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: pc84 on May 22, 2020, 03:25:46 am
The U.S. and South Korea had their first cases of Covid right around the same time.

Keep in mind South Korea is roughly 1/5 the size of the US:

US cases - 1,600,000
SK cases - 11,000

US deaths - 96,000
SK deaths - 264

The disparity between these numbers is obscene. And why? Because South Korea took this seriously, had a plan in place, followed it, and aggressively tested. South Korea is almost 100% reopened while we sit and wait.

Bottom line is that Trump and the Government dropped the ball on this. While he was saying it was a Democratic hoax, the South Koreans were dealing with the issue at hand. And their most populated city, Seoul, is larger than NYC and didn't have a massive outbreak. If Trump had taken this seriously, and not ditched the pandemic preparedness team, we'd be in much better shape right now.

I read and pay attention and am always skeptical of just about everything. I don't swallow everything the government or media tells me, but I do tend to lean towards listening to the experts.

Bottom line, Trump didn't respond and it's costing us big time. But what do we really expect from a shady casino owner/reality TV star who was born a millionaire and has never held a political office before?

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Inconspicuous on May 22, 2020, 03:39:52 pm
The U.S. and South Korea had their first cases of Covid right around the same time.

Keep in mind South Korea is roughly 1/5 the size of the US:

US cases - 1,600,000
SK cases - 11,000

US deaths - 96,000
SK deaths - 264

The disparity between these numbers is obscene. And why? Because South Korea took this seriously, had a plan in place, followed it, and aggressively tested. South Korea is almost 100% reopened while we sit and wait.

It's cute that you believe the numbers SK is putting out there are accurate.  Not to mention the accuracy, or lack thereof, of the US numbers.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: nhb2007noo on May 22, 2020, 04:18:21 pm
"It's cute that you believe the numbers SK is putting out there are accurate.  Not to mention the accuracy, or lack thereof, of the US numbers."

I have a friend who was a US citizen, but then because of a tax dispute, he renounced his US citizenship to become a South Korean citizen. He now lives in Singapore, but he still travels to the US frequently.

Early on in the pandemic, South Korea--because he was a South Korean citizen--was obsessively keeping tabs on him, his movements, his temperature. They developed an app. He was required to take his temperature every day at set intervals and input the data into the app. If he failed to do so, his phone would ring with a person reminding him to do so. South Korea got this system in place very early on. And my friend even got the calls even though he never traveled inside South Korea and was never there during the pandemic.

By contrast, my friend flew into the United State from Asia during the same period which was after the direct flights from China into the US were stopped. He described a system in which getting off the plane, there was no screening whatsoever! Specifically, he entered Chicago on a direct flight from Japan. Obviously, the supposed benefit of shutting down flights to and from China are diminished where there are still jumping off points into the US from China. This example shows how hopeless the US is that in believing that there is a public health crisis sufficiently important to shut down all flights into the US from China that they cannot also manage to get someone to take temperatures on passengers disembarking flights from points in Asia.

I offer this story to demonstrate the tremendous differences in response to the catastrophe based upon preparedness.

To return to the earlier question: who is cooking the books. I think that you have it exactly backwards! The South Korean government understands (and demonstrates) that an open public health response is better. This difference is fundamental. And it helps to explain why there is so much less buy in from the populace in the US than elsewhere in the world. (The skeptical responses on this board point to a crisis in confidence. Indeed, part of our problem right now is that we in the US have so very little faith in our government.) Further, it's far more likely that the US numbers have been massaged than the South Korean numbers. For instance, we know that the Florida state epidemiologist in charge of keeping the numbers was fired for not keeping them low. We know that early on Trump wouldn't let passengers off the cruise ship because he liked the numbers where they were.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 23, 2020, 06:07:32 pm
81% Of Canadian COVID Deaths Are In Nursing Homes

'A new report citing Canada’s Chief Public Health Officer Theresa Tam, confirms that among Canada’s coronavirus fatalities, 81 percent were in nursing homes – affecting the elderly with long-term chronic health conditions.'

https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/05/21/report-coronavirus-in-canada-81-percent-of-covid-19-deaths-in-nursing-homes/

Go to Table 5 - https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/phac-aspc/documents/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/surv-covid19-epi-update-eng.pdf

The lockdowns were/are MORONIC.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 23, 2020, 06:53:42 pm
California doctors say they've seen more deaths from suicide than coronavirus since lockdowns

'Doctors in Northern California say they have seen more deaths from suicide than they’ve seen from the coronavirus during the pandemic.

“The numbers are unprecedented,” Dr. Michael deBoisblanc of John Muir Medical Center in Walnut Creek, California, told ABC 7 News about the increase of deaths by suicide, adding that he’s seen a “year’s worth of suicides” in the last four weeks alone.'


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/california-doctors-say-theyve-seen-more-deaths-from-suicide-than-coronavirus-since-lockdowns

Of course, not that you big government-lovers give a shit about all the misery that the lockdowns are causing. All the added domestic violence, drug/alcoholism, huge increase in bankruptcies, suicides.
 
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 23, 2020, 08:07:49 pm
Hey 888 your boss from Germany is calling in from 1945.

He wants his Nazi propaganda back. He recognized it is only for idiots and plans to shoot himself on April, 30th 1945.

🤣🤣
We now see andrat2000.

He racked his brain and this was the response he came up with...that.
 
So now we know - you have NOTHING to respond to the facts I post...just anger, incoherent blather and trolling.

I love people like you...you make me feel SO much better about myself.

Have a wonderful day.


Anyways...back to the subject:

From Judge Napolitano. A man who knows a HELL of a lot more about American law than any schmuck on here.

'The third constitutional issue is: Can a state legislature enact laws that interfere with personal liberties protected by the Bill of Rights, prescribe punishments for violations of those laws and authorize governors to use force to compel compliance? Again, the answer is no because all government in America is subordinate to the natural rights articulated in the Bill of Rights and embraced in the Ninth Amendment.'

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2020/05/andrew-p-napolitano/do-we-still-have-a-constitution/

There you are - proof positive...forcing people to stay home, to not peacefully assemble or go to church IS unconstitutional. It breaks the law.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 23, 2020, 09:49:18 pm
We again get a Fox News idiot as reference presented: Judge Napolitano.

Please everyone consider this biased statements.

Also consider his other source reference bias Lewrockwell as extremist right (in other words: a Nazi-Source)
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/lew-rockwell/

Washington Examiner is just a bit less extremist right: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/washington-examiner/

Please everyone consider the references presented by a Nazi to you if you really want to take it as REAL or if it is more likely Nazi-Propaganda.

Hey, you gay little Nazi, it doesn't matter where the article comes from...DUH.

All that matters is who wrote them...again...well DUH.

Only a complete dufus dismisses an article solely on who re-posted it. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

And 'The Judge' is a Libertarian...and he WAS a judge who knows a HELL of a lot more about the law then you ever will.

'Napolitano served as a New Jersey Superior Court judge from 1987 to 1995. He was a visiting professor at Brooklyn Law School. He has written nine books on legal and political subjects.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Napolitano

But okay, why don't you show us a link to unbiased, factual proof that the US lockdowns did not in ANY WAY violate the Bill of Rights?

I bet that you cannot....which means your words mean - as per usual on this subject - NOTHING.


And here is an article I think you will 'like':

COVID-19 a ‘boomer remover’ — Why millennials are angry and done with older generation

'As the world grapples with the coronavirus pandemic, the words ‘Boomer Remover’ featured prominently in Twitter trends the past couple of days. It is, of course, a mean yet on-point joke about how the majority of the COVID-19 pandemic’s death toll are the elderly.

What is the reason for this pushback and anger against Boomers across the world, and in particular, against uncles in India? ‘OK Boomer’ and ‘Uncle, please sit’ are now popular catchphrases to signal that young people have had enough of the policies and politics that have got us to this point. Boomers have handed younger generations a broken economy, an ailing planet, and nuclear weapons – but won’t stop with the lectures.'


https://theprint.in/opinion/pov/covid-19-a-boomer-remover-why-millennials-are-angry-and-done-with-older-generation/381223/

I will have to remember tha one - 'Boomer Remover'.


Here is another one:

'Zoomers are calling coronavirus ‘boomer remover’

'It's not a laughing matter.

Leave it to Generation Z to come up with a brutal nickname for a global pandemic. But leave it to people angry about the tag to keep ‘boomer remover’ trending—and make the hashtag a meme.

“Every tweet in the hashtag #BoomerRemover is someone complaining that the millennials are saying it, like, ur the ones making it trend ffs,” @marymaudlinn wrote on Twitter.


#BoomerRemover, which trended on Twitter and TikTok on Friday, is gallows humor at its most extreme. The coronavirus causes respiratory illness COVID-19 and has caused 41 deaths in the U.S., according to the CDC, with over 1,600 reported cases. The elderly, immunocompromised, and children are at the highest risk of catching COVID-19.

Like the explosion of “OK boomer” memes, the hashtag reflects a difficult political climate and growing animosity between generations.

“Its so they can finally afford rent, since boomers made policies that benefitted themselves at the expense of others for decades,” @mo_tariq wrote. “And millennials have been blamed for all of society’s problems.”'


https://www.dailydot.com/irl/boomer-remover-meme/

So, I guess you think all Zoomers are Nazis too - 🤣🤣🤣.

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 23, 2020, 10:06:02 pm
We again get a Fox News idiot as reference presented: Judge Napolitano.

Please everyone consider this biased statements.

Also consider his other source reference bias Lewrockwell as extremist right (in other words: a Nazi-Source)
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/lew-rockwell/

Washington Examiner is just a bit less extremist right: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/washington-examiner/

Please everyone consider the references presented by a Nazi to you if you really want to take it as REAL or if it is more likely Nazi-Propaganda.

Here are the two Amendments in the US Bill Of Rights that makes the lockdowns unconstitutional

'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights#First_Amendment

And this is the Fourteenth Amendment, Section 1:

'Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Text

The first one says that Americans MUST be able to peacefully assemble AND have freedom of religion.

And the second one states that no state may take those rights away.


The U.S. lockdowns ARE - by law - unconstitutional.

Got it yet?

I doubt it.

Ta ta.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 24, 2020, 02:42:10 am
I said and answered what I had to say. You keep coming up with your Nazi propaganda. In a democracy I can't discuss and negotiate democratic positions on one side and with your Nazi propaganda on the other side and come up with an about 50:50 result out of it.

The result wouldn't be of democratic values anymore. So nothing to discuss with you. The rest of the people here have democratic values and positions, so with them I continue to discuss.

Speaking about trolls sending unwanted PM's. https://pasteboard.co/J9JY8Fm.png
Just to sort that in. The PM he wrote directly after his last post above.

Ummm...you start the post by addressing me directly.
Then - all of a sudden - you talk about me in the third person.
Okaaaaay.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 24, 2020, 02:53:45 am
"2) The Constitution says NO WHERE that the First Amendment can be overridden by illness/disease."

It is true that the Constitution does not say this. But the Bill of Rights have consistently been interpreted to give way to "reasonableness" restrictions and in the face of "national emergencies." And the Constitution is not where you find out what counts as constitutional. Long ago, Justice Marshall won the day on that argument when he commented: "It is a Constitution that we are expounding." (McCullough v. MD.) The nutshell: the US Supreme Court gets to be the final word on what the Constitution means.

The first limiting principle is embodied by Oliver Wendell Holmes's idea that your right to free speech does not give you the right to yell fire in a crowded theater in Schneck v. US. The second limiting principle is tad bit murkier but the President has the authority to act under any power previously enumerated by Congress. This comes from Youngstown Sheet and Tube. Hence, you need to look at the National Emergencies Act (1976), which basically says that you don't get to go to church for a little while and so you should just get comfortable with that idea instead of opining about constitutional law which apparently you don't know very much about.

And as this poor schmuck learned the hard way, sometimes you're better off not being so opinionated about your supposed fundamental rights: https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-church-california-mothers-day-20200518-2dht2ys4bjgpfehczy36izgi6u-story.html

You just might discover that you're wrong in more ways than one.

LOL...so the Constitution does not matter...only the SCOTUS? Well, that will be news to a few people.

Plus, with the SCOTUS is already 5-4 for righties. And two leftie ones are over 80. And Ginsburg is barely hanging on. If Trump wins in November, she will clearly be out and he will make it 6-3 for righties.

But that is all theory.

The fact remains:

'Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.'

'Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.'

The First and the Fourteenth (respectively) spell it out loud and clear...the lockdowns are blatantly unconstitutional. But so many people are terrified/cowardly...they don't care right now.
 But history will show I am right...guaranteed.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 24, 2020, 03:16:50 am
Some people kept making the point that this virus only kills as much as the common flu. This is wrong. This virus is more deadly than the common flu, and it is a virus ONTOP of the common flu which we have seasonly. Look at it this way, Covid-19 is on track to kill at least 200k American's by the end of 2020. The 62k common flu death number that is flung around is based on the worst flu season ever. We are 4 months into Covid-19 and we've got 90+k dead, and that is with sheltering in place to slow it's spread.

It may not be exactly on top of the common flu. If covid-19 takes out a large portion of those that would have come victim to the common flu this year, then this may turn out to be less of an increase than a simple addition.

But yea, i don't understand why people keep saying it's just the common flu or it's just as deadly, it's clearly not, not by any statistics, not in the US, not in Europe. Death rate will likely be adjusted downwards (hopefully) as testing becomes more prevalent and we get a better picture of how many are actually infected and asymptomatic or only show mild symptoms.

It's a difficult comparison to get a clear picture of the situation, facts vs epidemiological estimates.

Really?

Then check this out:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/summary-1.htm
(this is from March):

Number of confirmed flu cases in America: 222,552
Number of deaths: 22,000
That works out to 9.8% death rate for flu.
Remember the death rate is based on confirmed cases - not suspected cases.

COVID-19 Death Rate in America as of now: 5.9%
(and it was lower in March)
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

You were saying that 'But yea, i don't understand why people keep saying it's just the common flu or it's just as deadly, it's clearly not, not by any statistics, not in the US'?


BTW - the above does not mean I am saying the flu is more or less serious than COVID-19.

Good day.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 24, 2020, 10:42:38 pm
'Under the most severe of the five scenarios outlined -- not the agency's "best estimate" -- the CDC lists a symptomatic case fatality ratio of 0.01, meaning that 1% of people overall with Covid-19 and symptoms would die.

In the least severe scenario, the CDC puts that number at 0.2%.'


https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/health-news/cdc-says-35percent-of-coronavirus-infections-are-asymptomatic/ar-BB14r1Ii

And remember - that is 0.2% if you have COVID-19 AND have symptoms.

And the data grows larger and larger that the COVID-19 reaction has been GALACTICALLY overblown.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 24, 2020, 10:44:05 pm
'The CDC just confirmed a .2% death-rate for COVID-19.
For that, we have:
* Added nearly 6 trillion to national debt
* Laid-off or furloughed 50 million workers
* Placed 60 million on food stamps
* Gone from 5% to 13% unemployment
* Crippled the petroleum industry
* Ruined the tourism industry
* Bankrupted the service industry
* Caused an impending meat and protein crisis
* Threatened, fined, and arrested church leaders
* Exacerbated mental health problems
* Shut down schools and colleges
* Given unbridled power to unelected officials
* Increased suicides higher than COVID deaths
* Delayed surgeries and treatments for profound illnesses
* Infringed upon countless important civil liberties
* Placed 300 million Americans on house arrest
These consequences are largely due to two things:
The first is our view of government as a god that can control Providence and plagues. In our hubris, we increasingly view the government as a deity who can stop acts of nature.
The second is our sniveling, 21st-century commitment to safety. Our desire to be “safe” ruined our fiscal, physical, medical, food, energy, and national security.
Unfortunately there is no vaccine for cultural fragility.
~JD Hall'


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: erokai on May 24, 2020, 11:03:17 pm
It is in the Na ...
Maybe you should visit buchenwald & ask if the showers still work ? It seems like , how often you use those words , you like one of this locations .

@888 : totally agree !

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: erokai on May 24, 2020, 11:31:16 pm
As far as i know that is a forum for boobs , not for discreet political things . I think this thread was started by Indy to share the problems at this time . Yor problem Mr Andrat is totally different & by the way & i think incurable .
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: erokai on May 24, 2020, 11:58:52 pm
Yes i am still here , without fillups & without stalking people under the equator .  ;) 
"Doxxing" , ähm , was that not your part ? As far as i know you were a stalker over the equator . Or i am wrong ?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: erokai on May 25, 2020, 12:28:55 am
In Frankfurt am Main Germany after lifting of the restrictions a Baptist church gathering caused by now over 100 new infections ( and growing) with COVID-19.
And what do we learn from this ? Don't go to church!  I am really happy that in some parts of germany the mask duty ends on 06.June this year !
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 25, 2020, 09:36:37 am
It is in the Nazis' nature that he oversees in his posts the exessive overmortality of COVID-19 with POC.
Well since this Nazi is also in eugenics and euthanasia of older people, it doesn't wonder much anymore.

But maybe the Nazi can one day rethink his eugenics and euthanasia propaganda and return to democratic values and become a valued member of a democracy again. Are there EXIT programs for Nazis in the US, we can recommend to him?

You clearly read everything I type, you scream at the mods to try and get me banned (failed), you don't even know what words mean (like euthanasia) - yet keep using them wrongly even after you have been shown the definition, you call me childish names that do not apply (even when the mod(s) ask us to be civil), you NEVER post links of merit and you have not even got the guts to debate me either here or in private.
 And hello, dumbass?

'Nazi noun
 ​a member of the National Socialist party which controlled Germany from 1933 to 1945
​(disapproving) a person who uses their power in a cruel way; a person with extreme and unreasonable views about race'

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/nazi_2

I am none of those things and have said NOTHING about 'race'. But again, you are so delusional that you have completely arbitrary meanings for words as the mood strikes you.

 You sir appear to be a coward and a troll who seems not very bright and (based on other posts of yours on this forum) a sad, weak little man and a COMPLETE waste of my time.
 Let me know in PM when you get the guts to debate with me one on one...because you sure as shit do not now.

Have a nice life.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: erokai on May 26, 2020, 12:12:58 am
There is no more to say Mr 888 . Exactly my words . Time wasting to discus with people like him .
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 27, 2020, 12:00:48 am
Here you go lockdown lovers.

Top Norwegian health official: We could have controlled coronavirus without a lockdown

'A top health official in Norway said the country could have brought the coronavirus outbreak under control without a lockdown and urged the country not to lock down if a second wave hits.

"Our assessment now ... is that we could possibly have achieved the same effects and avoided some of the unfortunate impacts by not locking down but by instead keeping open but with infection control measures," said Camilla Stoltenberg, the head of the Norwegian Institute of Public Health, according to the Local Norway.'


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/top-norway-health-official-we-could-have-controlled-coronavirus-without-a-lockdown

People - in government - are finally seeing the truth.

Kudos to her for seeing the light and admitting their mistake.


But, let me guess?
You lockdown lovers think you know better than her and still will say 'the lockdown's are/were good'.
 ::)

I guarantee you that history will look back and say the lockdowns were a RIDICULOUS overreaction.



Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: dajkam on May 27, 2020, 11:05:34 am
Here you go lockdown lovers.

Top Norwegian health official: We could have controlled coronavirus without a lockdown

'A top health official in Norway said the country could have brought the coronavirus outbreak under control without a lockdown and urged the country not to lock down if a second wave hits.

"Our assessment now ... is that we could possibly have achieved the same effects and avoided some of the unfortunate impacts by not locking down but by instead keeping open but with infection control measures," said Camilla Stoltenberg, the head of the Norwegian Institute of Public Health, according to the Local Norway.'


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/top-norway-health-official-we-could-have-controlled-coronavirus-without-a-lockdown

People - in government - are finally seeing the truth.

Kudos to her for seeing the light and admitting their mistake.


But, let me guess?
You lockdown lovers think you know better than her and still will say 'the lockdown's are/were good'.
 ::)

I guarantee you that history will look back and say the lockdowns were a RIDICULOUS overreaction.
I agree lockdowns make no sense.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: punternet on May 27, 2020, 01:42:50 pm
Here you go lockdown lovers.

Top Norwegian health official: We could have controlled coronavirus without a lockdown

'A top health official in Norway said the country could have brought the coronavirus outbreak under control without a lockdown and urged the country not to lock down if a second wave hits.

"Our assessment now ... is that we could possibly have achieved the same effects and avoided some of the unfortunate impacts by not locking down but by instead keeping open but with infection control measures," said Camilla Stoltenberg, the head of the Norwegian Institute of Public Health, according to the Local Norway.'


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/top-norway-health-official-we-could-have-controlled-coronavirus-without-a-lockdown

People - in government - are finally seeing the truth.

Kudos to her for seeing the light and admitting their mistake.


But, let me guess?
You lockdown lovers think you know better than her and still will say 'the lockdown's are/were good'.
 ::)

I guarantee you that history will look back and say the lockdowns were a RIDICULOUS overreaction.

So when one person agrees with you, then they have seen the light. But when hundreds of experts disagree with you, they're all idiots.
Right...
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: nhb2007noo on May 27, 2020, 04:04:10 pm
You folks is crazy.

Andrat, I encourage you to think about how historians will one day think differently about this situation than we do now and in particular whether they will agree that lockdown was worth the economic devastation it brought (and to call people Nazis less if at all possible because it kind of ends all civilized debate with a single word). Myself, I'm not sure that they will. And I'm also inclined to think that the lockdown and how its unfolded (in the US anyway) is an expression of two important facts: (1) we cannot be counted on to trust each other to do the right thing--which is probably correct (Americans are fundamentally selfish actors) (2) the disproportionate political power of the older generation. The hardships wrought on many by the lockdown are terrible. Perhaps, you are communicating with someone who has suffered them.

888, I encourage you to occasionally get your news from nonpartisan sources. It's pretty clear that you've gone into the echo chamber. And re: your rebuttal, it's true that SCOTUS can and certainly does occasionally change its mind. But generally when they decide to step on a hundred or more years of stare decisis it tends to be a pretty big fucking deal that threatens the bedrock of the institution that they represent. (Many risks to their legitimacy always lurk in the background--a new overriding statute, a new overriding amendment, court packing, and nonenforcement of their decisions by the President. i.e., SCOTUS gets the last word, but its power is fragile.) Regardless, the calculation is not the simple one that you offer (and evidently hope for). There is a limit. And what the Supreme Court has said in the past has a stickiness to it that is not easily overridden, even by reactionary and activist judges. (Also, your count is off. Right now, you need to consider how many of your "righties" are also activists. That is, how many conservative justices are also willing to snub their noses at precedent. I'd say that you only have at most four (certainly not five -- and probably only three): Alito, Thomas, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh.) Sorry if I am the bearer of bad news on this. Just don't hold your breath.)
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 27, 2020, 08:51:44 pm
The CDC Slashed the COVID-19 Fatality Rate to a Fraction of Earlier Estimate Used to Justify Lockdowns

'Governments throughout the world and across the US justified extreme, draconian, undemocratic, and unconstitutional (in most US states) "lockdown" and stay-at-home orders on the grounds that the COVID-19 virus was exceptionally fatal.

In March, the World Health Organization (WHO) was claiming that the fatality rate was a very high 3.4 percent.

...

Now, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has released new estimates suggesting that the real fatality rate is around 0.26 percent.

'Specifically, the report concludes that the "symptomatic case fatality ratio" is 0.4 percent. But that's just symptomatic cases. In the same report, the CDC also claims that 35 percent of all cases are asymptomatic.

Or, as the Washington Post reported this week:

The agency offered a "current best estimate" of 0.4 percent. The agency also gave a best estimate that 35 percent of people infected never develop symptoms. Those numbers when put together would produce an infection fatality rate of 0.26, which is lower than many of the estimates produced by scientists and modelers to date.
"'


https://mises.org/power-market/cdc-slashed-covid-19-fatality-rate-fraction-earlier-estimate-used-justify-lockdowns

Here are the CDC numbers - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

So...just as many people (including me) have been saying for months.
COVID-19 is just a 'bad' flu.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on May 29, 2020, 03:30:22 am
New study questions the effectiveness of masks against SARS-CoV-2

'...At the same time, the World Health Organization (WHO), which have also updated their guidelines for the use of protective face masks, warn instead that “The wide use of masks by healthy people in the community setting is not supported by current evidence and carries uncertainties and critical risks.”'

...

'Now, new findings, published in the Annals of Internal Medicine, suggest that neither surgical nor cloth masks are at all effective in stopping the spread of SARS-CoV-2.

The research, conducted by investigators from the University of Ulsan College of Medicine, Chung-Ang University Hospital, and Sejong University — all in Seoul, South Korea — involved a group of four participants receiving medical care for COVID-19.

To find out whether — and which — masks could stop the viral particles from spreading, the researchers asked the participants to cough over petri dishes without a mask, while wearing a disposable surgical mask, and while wearing a reusable mask made of cotton cloth.

In each of these three circumstances, the participants had to cough five times. Each time, they did so over a different petri dish.

Finally, the team swabbed the outer and inner surfaces of each mask — cotton or surgical.

They expected to find droplets containing SARS-CoV-2 on the inner surfaces. The question was whether any viral particles had been able to pass through the masks to their outer surfaces.

After analyzing the swabs, the researchers found particles of SARS-CoV-2 on the outsides of both types of mask, suggesting that neither type can contain the virus.

“Neither surgical nor cotton masks effectively filtered SARS–CoV-2 during coughs by infected patients,” the researchers write in their study paper.'
[/b]

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/new-study-questions-the-effectiveness-of-masks-against-sars-cov-2?fbclid=IwAR1CqYsKCEKtl_--iXzSzdeIoa_RUSHbBfHmxTV5EeOomudHH1j_nLQCmWM#More-virus-on-outer-mask-surfaces

Once again, the paranoia/fear of the masses is trumped by reality and science.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: dissenter on May 31, 2020, 07:04:02 pm

COVID-19 has been GALACTICALLY overblown.

Ah yes. Totally overblown.
More than 100.000 dead people, only in the USA, just overblew it and were so galactically nasty to die instead of just having a cough or a slight head cold.

Man, there are too many super morons in the world. Thanks goodness you often can detect a moron very easy, just by his or her moronish shift key abuse.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Eddie_Valiant on June 01, 2020, 01:27:29 am
Well, COVID isn't at the top of the news cycle anymore.... but 2020's post-apocalyptic theme continues
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: dajkam on June 04, 2020, 04:10:06 am
On my end in Poland everything is almost normal now
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: pc84 on July 05, 2020, 05:50:02 pm
Yesterday was July 4th for the US and we celebrated with over 45,000 new cases.

As an American I'm sad and annoyed.

Canada, European nations, and so many other countries around the world are beating this thing and the US is going backwards. Florida is averaging over 10,000 cases a day and has closed bars again.

Partly because Trump is an absolute buffoon. All he needs to do is tell people to wear a mask and be safe/careful when outside and stick to small groups, but he won't do it. Instead he floats conspiracy theories and claims to wear a mask in private while too many Americans don't wear masks because of "freedom." What a bunch of idiots.

Yes, masks aren't perfect, but they help keep people safe. I'll most likely be fine, but I see my 90 year old grandmother once a week and my brother has a 2 month old. I'll gladly wear a mask to keep them safe. It doesn't infringe on my liberty much like wearing pants and shirt in public.

So many other countries are in great decline because they took this seriously, distanced, wore masks, and tested. Oh, and Trump suggested a few weeks ago we slow down testing.

Ignorance and lack of leadership. It's infuriating and it makes me embarrassed to be an American. Trump said in his inauguration that other countries would no longer be laughing at us. Well guess what, countries are no longer admitting American tourists because of how we've handled Covid. That includes Mexico. Oh the irony. The US is a joke.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Rippler on July 05, 2020, 09:13:29 pm
No, Europeans are not laughing at the USA. You have so many beautiful girls with huge fake tits.
We may laugh at your president. Fake brain isn't sexy at all. And it's your own decision to act resposinbly: Wear a mask when it makes sense, avoid too close contact to other persons and go voting.

Can we go back to fake tits now? I vote for big rippling fake tits!
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on July 06, 2020, 02:58:34 am
Yesterday was July 4th for the US and we celebrated with over 45,000 new cases.

As an American I'm sad and annoyed.

Canada, European nations, and so many other countries around the world are beating this thing and the US is going backwards. Florida is averaging over 10,000 cases a day and has closed bars again.

Partly because Trump is an absolute buffoon. All he needs to do is tell people to wear a mask and be safe/careful when outside and stick to small groups, but he won't do it. Instead he floats conspiracy theories and claims to wear a mask in private while too many Americans don't wear masks because of "freedom." What a bunch of idiots.

Yes, masks aren't perfect, but they help keep people safe. I'll most likely be fine, but I see my 90 year old grandmother once a week and my brother has a 2 month old. I'll gladly wear a mask to keep them safe. It doesn't infringe on my liberty much like wearing pants and shirt in public.

So many other countries are in great decline because they took this seriously, distanced, wore masks, and tested. Oh, and Trump suggested a few weeks ago we slow down testing.

Ignorance and lack of leadership. It's infuriating and it makes me embarrassed to be an American. Trump said in his inauguration that other countries would no longer be laughing at us. Well guess what, countries are no longer admitting American tourists because of how we've handled Covid. That includes Mexico. Oh the irony. The US is a joke.

Nonsense. The number of new cases means NOTHING. The more new cases, the faster herd immunity can set in.

What matters is the death rate.

Look at Sweden, they did no lockdown and there daily new cases are generally soaring. but their number of deaths keeps falling. And has steadily since min-April.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/

So if you and most other people whom have no idea what they are talking about on COVID-19 were true...then Sweden's number of deaths should be skyrocketing. Yet, they are doing the opposite.

As for the US death rate? The CDC has shown that the death rate for COVID-19 is basically that of a bad flu.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

Go down to Table 1 and to Scenario 5 (the most likely).
It shows the death rate of those whom are symptomatic is only 0.4%.
Now add in the fact that the CDC says at least 35% of all COVID-19 cases are asymptomatic (and we know it's far higher than that).
That brings the death rate down to only 0.23%
That is no worse than a bad flu season.
And that is according to the CDC.

As I have said for months - this ENTIRE COVID-19 'pandemic' is NOTHING but overblown hype.

And you mentioned Canada.
Here are the official COVID-19 numbers from the Canadian government:
https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html#a7

Look at the age breakdown of deaths?
97% of ALL COVID-19 deaths are for people over 60. This is the same as just about everywhere.
This disease ONLY kills the old and the weak (with very few exceptions).

What should have been done is the government offered old/weak people who wanted it, government-paid for isolation.
And everyone else should have been allowed to live their lives as normal.
It would have saved trillions of dollars and lots of misery.

COVID-19 is nothing but a bad flu.

And that is a fact...whether you, the government, the MSM or that media *WOMAN* Fauci want to admit.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: sirjonk on July 06, 2020, 04:59:29 pm
What matters is the death rate.

Look at Sweden, they did no lockdown and there daily new cases are generally soaring. but their number of deaths keeps falling. And has steadily since min-April.

Sweden's death rate is 10x it's neighboring countries, and the gov't launched an investigation to figure out how they could have made such a bad decision. The idea that "oh well, nothing to be done so people are gonna die" is claptrap q-anon anti-science nonsense, easily disproven by looking at all the countries that did not in fact have soaring death rates. The US could have been like any of those countries. Instead we have people arguing that masks are unconstitutional and cause carbon dioxide poisoning, and I'm not sure which of those is the dumber argument.

Death rates also lag 2-4 weeks from infection rates, which are soaring now. The idea that we should just grin and bear it instead of taking common sense mitigation steps is death cult rhetoric.

You call it a bad flu. Flu kills about 50,000 people in the US in an entire year, with everyone going to work and socializing, etc. Covid killed 130,000 in 5 months and that's with shutting the entire country down and locking people in their homes. You don't have to be a scientist to see this is not the flu.

And for the record, CDC shows that 17% of deaths are those under 65. Yes, deaths scale with age, but the idea that all of our parents and grandparents just have to go and die, well, as I said, death cultish.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: ZaDocTor on July 06, 2020, 10:06:41 pm
I have not, gotten my U.S. stimulus check yet. How come? Am I, the only one?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on July 15, 2020, 10:23:49 am
What matters is the death rate.

Look at Sweden, they did no lockdown and there daily new cases are generally soaring. but their number of deaths keeps falling. And has steadily since min-April.

Sweden's death rate is 10x it's neighboring countries, and the gov't launched an investigation to figure out how they could have made such a bad decision. The idea that "oh well, nothing to be done so people are gonna die" is claptrap q-anon anti-science nonsense, easily disproven by looking at all the countries that did not in fact have soaring death rates. The US could have been like any of those countries. Instead we have people arguing that masks are unconstitutional and cause carbon dioxide poisoning, and I'm not sure which of those is the dumber argument.

Death rates also lag 2-4 weeks from infection rates, which are soaring now. The idea that we should just grin and bear it instead of taking common sense mitigation steps is death cult rhetoric.

You call it a bad flu. Flu kills about 50,000 people in the US in an entire year, with everyone going to work and socializing, etc. Covid killed 130,000 in 5 months and that's with shutting the entire country down and locking people in their homes. You don't have to be a scientist to see this is not the flu.

And for the record, CDC shows that 17% of deaths are those under 65. Yes, deaths scale with age, but the idea that all of our parents and grandparents just have to go and die, well, as I said, death cultish.

1) Have you ever heard of a 'link' to prove all the nonsense you are spewing?

2) Either you are deliberately posting falsehoods or you have no idea what 'death rate' actually means. The death rate of Sweden's neighbors is not REMOTELY near 10X higher than theirs is.
And Sweden freely admitted they blew it with how they handled the old farts. And since almost everyone who dies is an old fart (or weak)...of course their death rate is higher. But it is not even double - let alone 10X. And again - I am talking about DEATH RATE. Not 'death total'. If you don't know what a term means - don't use it...or you will look foolish/ignorant.

 And - for the record - Sweden's death rate (and it's not the number of deaths that matters...it's the death rate) is much lower than G.B., France, Italy and Spain.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

3) Again, check it out. Both Canada and NY State numbers prove that virtually the ONLY people who die of COVID-19 are old farts and the weak. Healthy young people are under virtually NO THREAT from it.
Check out Canada? 1 death under 19 for the entire, fucking country.
https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html  Table 4
https://covid19tracker.health.ny.gov/views/NYS-COVID19-Tracker/NYSDOHCOVID-19Tracker-Fatalities?%3Aembed=yes&%3Atoolbar=no&%3Atabs=n

4) Only a macroeconomic ignoramus or a coward would say you should destroy the world's economy to save a bunch of useless, old farts who will be dead soon anyway. You just quarantine the old farts/the weak and let everyone else run their lives normally. DUH.
 
And Hello? The OFFICIAL death rate for the flu in the United States last flu season was MILES higher than the death rate for COVID-19. But no, you don't bother looking at the numbers before you spew forth your bile. You just make assumptions, blindly believe what the government/MSM tells you and panic.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm

And up to 650,000 people die EVERY YEAR from the flu.
https://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/statements/2017/flu/en/
That is still more than have died of COVID-19.
And we KNOW that the COVID-19 death total is WAY overstated.
https://www.thejournal.ie/covid-19-deaths-ireland-hiqa-5140490-Jul2020/
https://www.foxnews.com/us/covid-19-death-numbers-generate-debate-over-accuracy
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/birx-says-government-is-classifying-all-deaths-of-patients-with-coronavirus-as-covid-19-deaths-regardless-of-cause

The actual number of people who have died of COVID-19 is MILES lower than the official numbers. That is a fact.


AND LOOK AT THIS:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/covid-19-could-kill-people-hunger-virus-warns-oxfam/

Still say the governments are handling COVID-19 properly?

Yeah, you probably would. Because you obviously care about a few useless, old farts in your country WAAAAY more than millions of poor 'blacks' in Africa.

 That report says that MORE people will die from the lockdowns than from the fucking disease. That should horrify you. That should make you say 'stop the lockdowns'. But it doesn't. That speaks volumes about you as a person.

Ta ta.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: sirjonk on July 16, 2020, 04:19:20 am
After this reply, I will not be responding again, or reading your drivel, so feel free to call me names and scream into the ether, you sick, sick puppy. Why would I continue debate with someone who thinks human life has no value after a certain age? Seek help.

You also happen to be wrong, in each and every point, except that yes, covid doesn't kill the young in great numbers. Sweden's per capita death rate
 (yes, rate) was 10x it's neighbor Norway (google is your friend). Your misrepresent WHO's flu death estimate which is not 650, but a range of 290-650. Direct comparison is also useless when we locked the world down for covid, and don't for flu. If we treated covid like flu there'd have been tens of millions dead, which I know you don't care about. It's ok, no one cares about you either and that's probably why you're so mad. Incels are the worst.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on July 16, 2020, 09:41:05 pm
After this reply, I will not be responding again, or reading your drivel, so feel free to call me names and scream into the ether, you sick, sick puppy. Why would I continue debate with someone who thinks human life has no value after a certain age? Seek help.

You also happen to be wrong, in each and every point, except that yes, covid doesn't kill the young in great numbers. Sweden's per capita death rate
 (yes, rate) was 10x it's neighbor Norway (google is your friend). Your misrepresent WHO's flu death estimate which is not 650, but a range of 290-650. Direct comparison is also useless when we locked the world down for covid, and don't for flu. If we treated covid like flu there'd have been tens of millions dead, which I know you don't care about. It's ok, no one cares about you either and that's probably why you're so mad. Incels are the worst.
WRONG...everything I said was right and backed up with links (except yes, I should have said 'up to 650,000' - everything else, 100% accurate and proven with links). And you posted NOTHING to backup your statements.
And you did not say 'death rate per capita' above. You only said 'death rate'. Those are two ENTIRELY different statistics - I cannot read your mind. But anyway...

so you respect how Norway's top health officials handled COVID-19?

Okay.

Here is a link to Norway's top health official who says: 'We could have controlled coronavirus without a lockdown'

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/top-norway-health-official-we-could-have-controlled-coronavirus-without-a-lockdown

That just blows your ENTIRE argument out of the water and proves once and for all that lockdowns were a mistake.


Have a nice day.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: pc84 on July 17, 2020, 08:09:29 pm
New cases for July 16th:

UK - 641
Italy - 230
Canada - 435
Germany  - 584
USA - 73,388 (USA had 963 deaths alone on the 16th)

What a joke. So embarrassing.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: booberman46 on July 17, 2020, 09:50:37 pm
New cases for July 16th:

UK - 641
Italy - 230
Canada - 435
Germany  - 584
USA - 73,388 (USA had 963 deaths alone on the 16th)

What a joke. So embarrassing.
I'm glad i live in Australia where our government has some brains!!!!! the USA should be ashamed on how they are handling this virus caring more about profit and the economy than their own citizens lol. its bloody pathetic if you ask me!!!!
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Inconspicuous on July 17, 2020, 09:52:10 pm
New cases for July 16th:

UK - 641
Italy - 230
Canada - 435
Germany  - 584
USA - 73,388 (USA had 963 deaths alone on the 16th)

What a joke. So embarrassing.

What are the population differences between those countries and the US?  How many tests were conducted in each of those countries compared to the total tests in the US?  Those total numbers mean nothing without additional context. 
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: TickleTheo on July 18, 2020, 01:50:44 am
What are the population differences between those countries and the US?  How many tests were conducted in each of those countries compared to the total tests in the US?  Those total numbers mean nothing without additional context. 
The main difference is that instead of attempting to actually stop the spread, the US is actively spreading covid-19 after seemingly giving up on attempting to contain it, which just about every other country seemed to be able to do.

As their ER beds fill to capacity, medical staff starts losing hope and refridgerator trucks are brought in to chill the dead. Thats apparently what it takes for the people to be convinced to do the right thing. Freaking forcing hospitals to have refridgertor trucks on stand-by to store the dead.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Inconspicuous on July 18, 2020, 02:22:52 am
What are the population differences between those countries and the US?  How many tests were conducted in each of those countries compared to the total tests in the US?  Those total numbers mean nothing without additional context. 
The main difference is that instead of attempting to actually stop the spread, the US is actively spreading covid-19 after seemingly giving up on attempting to contain it, which just about every other country seemed to be able to do.

As their ER beds fill to capacity, medical staff starts losing hope and refridgerator trucks are brought in to chill the dead. Thats apparently what it takes for the people to be convinced to do the right thing. Freaking forcing hospitals to have refridgertor trucks on stand-by to store the dead.

Don't believe everything the media tells you.  The refrigerator truck nonsense is being reported lately from Texas, the San Antonio area specifically.  According to the CDC, all-cause mortality in Texas is above the three-year average by 2% at this point in the year.

In Texas, COVID represents ~3% of all 2020 fatalities.  These numbers would not normally necessitate bringing in additional morgue storage.....unless, of course, a government entity is just looking to crank up the hysteria in cooperation with the media. 

Total infections still are only around 1% of the US population.  Total positive test rates certainly are up in some areas, but are down in others.  Lots of testing provides for lots of positive test results.  We also know the data is telling us people 40 and under have practically nothing to worry about if they do contract COVID.  Even better odds of survival and fewer symptoms in younger age groups.  It's time to stop fearing this virus and instead learn to live with it, and allow healthy citizens to assume the risk on their own.  If you're old or immuno-compromised, stay home and avoid contact with others. 
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: TickleTheo on July 18, 2020, 06:11:32 am
What are the population differences between those countries and the US?  How many tests were conducted in each of those countries compared to the total tests in the US?  Those total numbers mean nothing without additional context. 
The main difference is that instead of attempting to actually stop the spread, the US is actively spreading covid-19 after seemingly giving up on attempting to contain it, which just about every other country seemed to be able to do.

As their ER beds fill to capacity, medical staff starts losing hope and refridgerator trucks are brought in to chill the dead. Thats apparently what it takes for the people to be convinced to do the right thing. Freaking forcing hospitals to have refridgertor trucks on stand-by to store the dead.

Don't believe everything the media tells you.  The refrigerator truck nonsense is being reported lately from Texas, the San Antonio area specifically.  According to the CDC, all-cause mortality in Texas is above the three-year average by 2% at this point in the year.

In Texas, COVID represents ~3% of all 2020 fatalities.  These numbers would not normally necessitate bringing in additional morgue storage.....unless, of course, a government entity is just looking to crank up the hysteria in cooperation with the media. 

Total infections still are only around 1% of the US population.  Total positive test rates certainly are up in some areas, but are down in others.  Lots of testing provides for lots of positive test results.  We also know the data is telling us people 40 and under have practically nothing to worry about if they do contract COVID.  Even better odds of survival and fewer symptoms in younger age groups.  It's time to stop fearing this virus and instead learn to live with it, and allow healthy citizens to assume the risk on their own.  If you're old or immuno-compromised, stay home and avoid contact with others. 

So, lets look up San Antino Texas then.
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/14/texas-hospitals-coronavirus/
^That is from 3 days ago.
Hospitals are prepping for the worst since it doesn't look too rosey for getting less cases of Covid in the near future for Texas. While the death count is still low for now, it'll only stay that way if the hospital beds don't go over capacity and they don't run out of ventilators. That is what happened in Italy. That is what happened in New York. That is what is going to happen to Texas if the spread doesn't slow the fuck down.

So the media is lying, the doctors literally saving lives are lying. Apparently in the US, everyone, but the leadership is lying to you. Sure.

There is a god damned good reason why the rest of the world takes their medical advise from medical doctors instead of just what the current political leader says.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Inconspicuous on July 18, 2020, 02:38:43 pm
What are the population differences between those countries and the US?  How many tests were conducted in each of those countries compared to the total tests in the US?  Those total numbers mean nothing without additional context. 
The main difference is that instead of attempting to actually stop the spread, the US is actively spreading covid-19 after seemingly giving up on attempting to contain it, which just about every other country seemed to be able to do.

As their ER beds fill to capacity, medical staff starts losing hope and refridgerator trucks are brought in to chill the dead. Thats apparently what it takes for the people to be convinced to do the right thing. Freaking forcing hospitals to have refridgertor trucks on stand-by to store the dead.

Don't believe everything the media tells you.  The refrigerator truck nonsense is being reported lately from Texas, the San Antonio area specifically.  According to the CDC, all-cause mortality in Texas is above the three-year average by 2% at this point in the year.

In Texas, COVID represents ~3% of all 2020 fatalities.  These numbers would not normally necessitate bringing in additional morgue storage.....unless, of course, a government entity is just looking to crank up the hysteria in cooperation with the media. 

Total infections still are only around 1% of the US population.  Total positive test rates certainly are up in some areas, but are down in others.  Lots of testing provides for lots of positive test results.  We also know the data is telling us people 40 and under have practically nothing to worry about if they do contract COVID.  Even better odds of survival and fewer symptoms in younger age groups.  It's time to stop fearing this virus and instead learn to live with it, and allow healthy citizens to assume the risk on their own.  If you're old or immuno-compromised, stay home and avoid contact with others. 

So, lets look up San Antino Texas then.
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/14/texas-hospitals-coronavirus/
^That is from 3 days ago.
Hospitals are prepping for the worst since it doesn't look too rosey for getting less cases of Covid in the near future for Texas. While the death count is still low for now, it'll only stay that way if the hospital beds don't go over capacity and they don't run out of ventilators. That is what happened in Italy. That is what happened in New York. That is what is going to happen to Texas if the spread doesn't slow the fuck down.

So the media is lying, the doctors literally saving lives are lying. Apparently in the US, everyone, but the leadership is lying to you. Sure.

There is a god damned good reason why the rest of the world takes their medical advise from medical doctors instead of just what the current political leader says.

Who said I believe what the leadership is saying?  I don't.  I have to look at data, which is coming straight from the CDC, to help figure out what is actually going on.  Certainly possible the CDC's data is flawed, but it's the best we have right now, and the data there is not suggesting anything nearly as bad as what is being hyped by the media right now.

You did just about everything there but say "wait two weeks," which has been the mantra of the fearful for months now.  And we've yet to turn states into smoldering ash, except for NY....which is run by a complete dolt who pushed COVID positive patients into nursing homes, causing mass infections and deaths. 

If we all worshiped at the altar of epidemiologists and doctors of those areas of expertise, we'd all be living in literal plastic bubbles and hazmat suits all the time, not just while we figure out COVID.  After all, those precautions would be the safest and most effective way of preventing spread of all diseases.  But.....that's why we don't worship at that altar; it's not a quality of life worth living.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on July 18, 2020, 05:47:39 pm
The Clown Cars Are Fully Loaded And Dr. Fauci’s Is Leading The Parade

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2020/july/17/the-clown-cars-are-fully-loaded-and-dr-fauci-s-is-leading-the-parade/
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on July 18, 2020, 05:55:01 pm
What are the population differences between those countries and the US?  How many tests were conducted in each of those countries compared to the total tests in the US?  Those total numbers mean nothing without additional context. 
The main difference is that instead of attempting to actually stop the spread, the US is actively spreading covid-19 after seemingly giving up on attempting to contain it, which just about every other country seemed to be able to do.

As their ER beds fill to capacity, medical staff starts losing hope and refridgerator trucks are brought in to chill the dead. Thats apparently what it takes for the people to be convinced to do the right thing. Freaking forcing hospitals to have refridgertor trucks on stand-by to store the dead.

Don't believe everything the media tells you.  The refrigerator truck nonsense is being reported lately from Texas, the San Antonio area specifically.  According to the CDC, all-cause mortality in Texas is above the three-year average by 2% at this point in the year.

In Texas, COVID represents ~3% of all 2020 fatalities.  These numbers would not normally necessitate bringing in additional morgue storage.....unless, of course, a government entity is just looking to crank up the hysteria in cooperation with the media. 

Total infections still are only around 1% of the US population.  Total positive test rates certainly are up in some areas, but are down in others.  Lots of testing provides for lots of positive test results.  We also know the data is telling us people 40 and under have practically nothing to worry about if they do contract COVID.  Even better odds of survival and fewer symptoms in younger age groups.  It's time to stop fearing this virus and instead learn to live with it, and allow healthy citizens to assume the risk on their own.  If you're old or immuno-compromised, stay home and avoid contact with others. 

So, lets look up San Antino Texas then.
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/14/texas-hospitals-coronavirus/
^That is from 3 days ago.
Hospitals are prepping for the worst since it doesn't look too rosey for getting less cases of Covid in the near future for Texas. While the death count is still low for now, it'll only stay that way if the hospital beds don't go over capacity and they don't run out of ventilators. That is what happened in Italy. That is what happened in New York. That is what is going to happen to Texas if the spread doesn't slow the fuck down.

So the media is lying, the doctors literally saving lives are lying. Apparently in the US, everyone, but the leadership is lying to you. Sure.

There is a god damned good reason why the rest of the world takes their medical advise from medical doctors instead of just what the current political leader says.

Ventilators?
They are mostly useless. They only help about 20% of those on them.
https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-ventilators-some-doctors-try-reduce-use-new-york-death-rate-2020-4?op=1

Also, ventilators cause permanent damage to many people.
https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=230352

You people have to stop believing what the bureaucrats and MSM are telling you and do your own research on this.

And again - according to the CDC - the death rate for COVID-19 is only (at WORST) 0.4%.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html (table 4)

The flu is normally 0.1%. Over 0.2% if it's a bad flu season.

And 1.5 MILLION people died of TB two years ago. Yet I doubt any of even know/cared.
https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/tuberculosis

WHy are 600,000 who died of COVID-19 worth ALL the attention and yet 1.5 million who died of TB in one year are worth no attention?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: TheFan on July 19, 2020, 02:19:37 am
New study questions the effectiveness of masks against SARS-CoV-2

They expected to find droplets containing SARS-CoV-2 on the inner surfaces. The question was whether any viral particles had been able to pass through the masks to their outer surfaces.

After analyzing the swabs, the researchers found particles of SARS-CoV-2 on the outsides of both types of mask, suggesting that neither type can contain the virus.
So there where particles of the virus on the inside of the masks (of course what were they thinking). Also particles on the outside, but maybe far less particles blown in the air that could easily be cached up by someone in the neighborhood. The free flow of particles in the air was stopped anyway, and you don't have to be a genius to realize that. And of course there are particles on the outside of the mask, one of the reasons that everybody knows that you simply do NOT touch the masks on the outside or on the inside.
“Neither surgical nor cotton masks effectively filtered SARS–CoV-2 during coughs by infected patients,” the researchers write in their study paper.
If they don't filter all the particles, at least they stop the free flow of virus particles outside the mask.
Conclusion: nothing new here. If the masks let a few virus pass through the masks the masks certainly stop from getting virusses in your face from someone coughing.
Besides what's the big deal of wearing a mask. It doesn't kill you. Better safe than sorry as they say, but many Americans seem to prefer sorry instead of safety. Why ? Because they only think about themselves and just hate any interference in their daily comfort.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: TheFan on July 19, 2020, 02:38:20 am
There is no way America will lose anywhere near even 100,000 people.
Just love these kind of predictions. 142,869 deaths so far and 3,832,911 infected. Nothing to worry about. Anyway even for those that are still convinced that it's just a bad flu: these flu numbers have to be added to the death toll of 142,869. Now here's my prediction: the death toll will rise above 200,000 (US) as long as there is no antivirus.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on July 20, 2020, 03:09:49 am
New cases for July 16th:

UK - 641
Italy - 230
Canada - 435
Germany  - 584
USA - 73,388 (USA had 963 deaths alone on the 16th)

What a joke. So embarrassing.

What are the population differences between those countries and the US?  How many tests were conducted in each of those countries compared to the total tests in the US?  Those total numbers mean nothing without additional context.


How many tests were conducted in each of those countries? What? You're like trump, in that you think testing leads to more cases? You do realize that saying testing for COVID leads to cases is the same as saying pregnancy tests cause pregnancy. The tests are to find out who has the virus, and to isolate it, which most Western countries have done, while the US has dragged its feet on testing and contact tracing and has no real centralized strategy aside from waiting and hoping for someone or something to miracle your miserable asses out of this. Seems to me the US is trying to rationalize the incredibly sad fact that the super power of the world is in league with Third World countries in regard to action and reaction to this crisis.

The difference, of course, is the Third World lacks the resources, people and facilities to properly respond. America's failure is a massive failure of leadership. Plenty of learned scientists and medical people, plenty of resources, plenty of facilities, NO leadership. Even the simple things, like wearing a mask, and distancing have been turned into political debates by leadership that only cares about appearances. In fact, America's failure in regard to COVID is best exemplified by the fact that the response task force is headed by a politician and not a scientist. AND those politicians demand science tell them what they want to hear. If leadership was as smart as he claims to be, he'd know to listen to people who know more than he does.

Saddest of all, America acts surprised that cases are spiking. What did you expect? You didn't listen to science, you opened back up WAY too soon, you still refuse to wear masks and distance, and then you're shocked that the cases and deaths keep increasing.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: chevychase1 on July 20, 2020, 04:47:19 pm
I personally know of two people who have caught Covid-19, one of whom died from it.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Inconspicuous on July 20, 2020, 05:28:02 pm
New cases for July 16th:

UK - 641
Italy - 230
Canada - 435
Germany  - 584
USA - 73,388 (USA had 963 deaths alone on the 16th)

What a joke. So embarrassing.

What are the population differences between those countries and the US?  How many tests were conducted in each of those countries compared to the total tests in the US?  Those total numbers mean nothing without additional context.


How many tests were conducted in each of those countries? What? You're like trump, in that you think testing leads to more cases?

Testing more people doesn't lead to more positive test results?  Is that your argument?

This is simple statistics.  If you test more people, you're going to receive more positive test results.  If you test fewer people, you'll receive fewer positive test results.  That's why I'm asking about the total tests.  This isn't about Trump - this is about simple math.

What really matters right now is the death rate, and the death rate numbers are not spiking out of control.  That's because the "right" people are testing positive; those who are healthy and able to fight off the virus.  The jury is still out on whether antibodies will last, and for how long, in order to build up the necessary herd immunity.

Once again, don't buy into the panic porn the media in the United States is selling to you.  We're not seeing cities and states burn down around us.  We're still sitting at only about 1% of the population with positive test results, and deaths will not spike up to anywhere near what they were when it first hit NYC.  The younger population has an extremely low fatality rate. 

There is one reason and one reason only that the media here is pushing the panic - they have to keep the panic up until at least the November election as they want to continue getting the clicks and shares on social media.  It's how they make their billions, and they've found that a panicked citizenry is really, really good for their business.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: phlalawyer on July 20, 2020, 06:22:53 pm
New cases for July 16th:

UK - 641
Italy - 230
Canada - 435
Germany  - 584
USA - 73,388 (USA had 963 deaths alone on the 16th)

What a joke. So embarrassing.

What are the population differences between those countries and the US?  How many tests were conducted in each of those countries compared to the total tests in the US?  Those total numbers mean nothing without additional context.


How many tests were conducted in each of those countries? What? You're like trump, in that you think testing leads to more cases? You do realize that saying testing for COVID leads to cases is the same as saying pregnancy tests cause pregnancy. The tests are to find out who has the virus, and to isolate it, which most Western countries have done, while the US has dragged its feet on testing and contact tracing and has no real centralized strategy aside from waiting and hoping for someone or something to miracle your miserable asses out of this. Seems to me the US is trying to rationalize the incredibly sad fact that the super power of the world is in league with Third World countries in regard to action and reaction to this crisis.

The difference, of course, is the Third World lacks the resources, people and facilities to properly respond. America's failure is a massive failure of leadership. Plenty of learned scientists and medical people, plenty of resources, plenty of facilities, NO leadership. Even the simple things, like wearing a mask, and distancing have been turned into political debates by leadership that only cares about appearances. In fact, America's failure in regard to COVID is best exemplified by the fact that the response task force is headed by a politician and not a scientist. AND those politicians demand science tell them what they want to hear. If leadership was as smart as he claims to be, he'd know to listen to people who know more than he does.

Saddest of all, America acts surprised that cases are spiking. What did you expect? You didn't listen to science, you opened back up WAY too soon, you still refuse to wear masks and distance, and then you're shocked that the cases and deaths keep increasing.

I couldn't agree more.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on July 21, 2020, 02:28:15 am
New cases for July 16th:

UK - 641
Italy - 230
Canada - 435
Germany  - 584
USA - 73,388 (USA had 963 deaths alone on the 16th)

What a joke. So embarrassing.

What are the population differences between those countries and the US?  How many tests were conducted in each of those countries compared to the total tests in the US?  Those total numbers mean nothing without additional context.


How many tests were conducted in each of those countries? What? You're like trump, in that you think testing leads to more cases?

Testing more people doesn't lead to more positive test results?  Is that your argument?

This is simple statistics.  If you test more people, you're going to receive more positive test results.  If you test fewer people, you'll receive fewer positive test results.  That's why I'm asking about the total tests.  This isn't about Trump - this is about simple math.

What really matters right now is the death rate, and the death rate numbers are not spiking out of control.  That's because the "right" people are testing positive; those who are healthy and able to fight off the virus.  The jury is still out on whether antibodies will last, and for how long, in order to build up the necessary herd immunity.

Once again, don't buy into the panic porn the media in the United States is selling to you.  We're not seeing cities and states burn down around us.  We're still sitting at only about 1% of the population with positive test results, and deaths will not spike up to anywhere near what they were when it first hit NYC.  The younger population has an extremely low fatality rate. 

There is one reason and one reason only that the media here is pushing the panic - they have to keep the panic up until at least the November election as they want to continue getting the clicks and shares on social media.  It's how they make their billions, and they've found that a panicked citizenry is really, really good for their business.

You're mistaking positive test results for the actual number of people infected. People who are infected are going to be infected whether they're tested or not.  Which is to say the US doesn't have more cases because they test more. They have more cases because they have MORE CASES. The fact remains that the US lags WAY behind the rest of the Western World, because the US, to this point, has done and continues to do everything wrong.

So in essence, what you're trying to do is to rationalize the failure by looking at it from strictly a statistical POV. There are plenty of doctors and nurses, respiratory therapists, technicians and other hospital workers who would greatly beg to differ with you as to how serious this is. ICU's are at or near capacity in Arizona, Florida and Texas. Hospitals are filling again in California, and the rural areas are beginning to experience hot spots. In other words, the 'media' won't have to 'keep the panic up until the November election,' because this isn't going away anytime before then. You're whistling past the graveyard.  And finally, death rate isn't the defining aspect here. If hospitals are over-run, the death rate will rise appreciably. And hospitals are going to be over-run, especially in rural areas, if a centralized strategy that isn't a hope for herd immunity isn't implemented.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on July 30, 2020, 03:28:44 pm
Well, congratulations all you dumb hicks and cowards who screamed for shutdowns...it's official. America is in a depression and had the largest economic contraction in one quarter in her HISTORY. Even worse than the Great Depression.

U.S. economy contracted record 32.9% in Q2 amid state shutdowns, COVID-19 contagion fears

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/07/30/economy-gdp-fell-annual-rate-32-9-q-2-amid-covid-19-crisis/5536647002/

Even though - as I posted above - Norway's medical head honcho admitted that shutdowns were not necessary.

All that was needed - as I said months ago - was quarantine any old farts and/or other vulnerable people who wanted it.

That would have stopped COVID-19 in its tracks and saved the economy (as virtually no one dies of it outside off old farts/people with serious health issues).

But no - losers and cowards and the MSM and media whor#s like Fauci want shutdowns.

Well, now we have a depression PLUS the worst fiscal deficit in history.

Way to go you stupid hicks/cowards.

And just to show how fucking dumb you people are? You are STILL probably saying moronic things like 'thank goodness we did the shutdowns. It saved SO many lives'.

No you losers - there is NO PROOF AT ALL that the shutdowns saved even one life over simply quarantining the old farts/weak.

And we know for a fact that many thousands of people have died BECAUSE of the shutdowns. And millions more (in the developing world - as I posted above) could die due to the shutdowns.

No event in my life has proven more to me that the world is populated by (largely) idiots and cowards...starting with many of the misogynistic, low IQ losers who largely populate this site.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on July 30, 2020, 03:44:31 pm
New cases for July 16th:

UK - 641
Italy - 230
Canada - 435
Germany  - 584
USA - 73,388 (USA had 963 deaths alone on the 16th)

What a joke. So embarrassing.

What are the population differences between those countries and the US?  How many tests were conducted in each of those countries compared to the total tests in the US?  Those total numbers mean nothing without additional context.


How many tests were conducted in each of those countries? What? You're like trump, in that you think testing leads to more cases?

Testing more people doesn't lead to more positive test results?  Is that your argument?

This is simple statistics.  If you test more people, you're going to receive more positive test results.  If you test fewer people, you'll receive fewer positive test results.  That's why I'm asking about the total tests.  This isn't about Trump - this is about simple math.

What really matters right now is the death rate, and the death rate numbers are not spiking out of control.  That's because the "right" people are testing positive; those who are healthy and able to fight off the virus.  The jury is still out on whether antibodies will last, and for how long, in order to build up the necessary herd immunity.

Once again, don't buy into the panic porn the media in the United States is selling to you.  We're not seeing cities and states burn down around us.  We're still sitting at only about 1% of the population with positive test results, and deaths will not spike up to anywhere near what they were when it first hit NYC.  The younger population has an extremely low fatality rate. 

There is one reason and one reason only that the media here is pushing the panic - they have to keep the panic up until at least the November election as they want to continue getting the clicks and shares on social media.  It's how they make their billions, and they've found that a panicked citizenry is really, really good for their business.

You nailed it here.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: pc84 on July 30, 2020, 05:16:50 pm
Ok, let's talk deaths.

1,485 deaths yesterday in the U.S, and 1,330 deaths the day before.

Again, every wealthy country like the U.S. has seen their number of cases and deaths decline. Not the U.S. Our deaths are going UP.

Sheer ignorance and lack of political leadership.

Deaths yesterday:
Italy - 3
Germany - 5
Sweden - 9
Belgium - 3
Switzerland - 1
Austria  - 2
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: bake0213 on July 31, 2020, 03:04:06 am
Your arguments would be more convincing if you demeaned your readers.  LOL

Ok, let's talk deaths.

1,485 deaths yesterday in the U.S, and 1,330 deaths the day before.

Again, every wealthy country like the U.S. has seen their number of cases and deaths decline. Not the U.S. Our deaths are going UP.

Sheer ignorance and lack of political leadership.

Deaths yesterday:
Italy - 3
Germany - 5
Sweden - 9
Belgium - 3
Switzerland - 1
Austria  - 2
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on August 03, 2020, 01:31:35 am
Well, congratulations all you dumb hicks and cowards who screamed for shutdowns...it's official. America is in a depression and had the largest economic contraction in one quarter in her HISTORY. Even worse than the Great Depression.

U.S. economy contracted record 32.9% in Q2 amid state shutdowns, COVID-19 contagion fears

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/07/30/economy-gdp-fell-annual-rate-32-9-q-2-amid-covid-19-crisis/5536647002/

Even though - as I posted above - Norway's medical head honcho admitted that shutdowns were not necessary.

All that was needed - as I said months ago - was quarantine any old farts and/or other vulnerable people who wanted it.

That would have stopped COVID-19 in its tracks and saved the economy (as virtually no one dies of it outside off old farts/people with serious health issues).

But no - losers and cowards and the MSM and media whor#s like Fauci want shutdowns.

Well, now we have a depression PLUS the worst fiscal deficit in history.

Way to go you stupid hicks/cowards.

And just to show how fucking dumb you people are? You are STILL probably saying moronic things like 'thank goodness we did the shutdowns. It saved SO many lives'.

No you losers - there is NO PROOF AT ALL that the shutdowns saved even one life over simply quarantining the old farts/weak.

And we know for a fact that many thousands of people have died BECAUSE of the shutdowns. And millions more (in the developing world - as I posted above) could die due to the shutdowns.

No event in my life has proven more to me that the world is populated by (largely) idiots and cowards...starting with many of the misogynistic, low IQ losers who largely populate this site.



 "We know for a fact that many thousands of people have died BECAUSE of the shutdowns." According to whom? Please state the source of this information. Something you saw on social media? One of your buddies said so, and you agreed? The undeniable fact is most Western nations have flattened the curve and are getting back to normal, and their economies didn't take anywhere near as much of a hit as the US did, because 1. They already had social and medical safety nets in place for such occurrences, and 2. Their leaders LED.

Also, this would be SO much easier to handle if it were JUST 'old farts and the weak,' who get this, but you know that's not true. If you look beyond what you want to see and hear, you'll find countless cases of young people, who are looking at prognoses of long-term pulmonary care, and/or lung transplants after 'recovering' from COVID. It's NOT just the flu.

Lastly, you'll notice I didn't insult you or try to degrade you in my response. If you respond, I'll read only so long as there aren't petty insults or other such childishness. This is an adult discussion of an adult issue. If you can't manage to behave as an adult, please don't waste our time and yours.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: pc84 on August 03, 2020, 03:18:08 am
Add on there have been +4,000 more deaths in the U.S. since my last post...three days ago...

We'll hit 160,000 total deaths (in under 6 months) this week.

And just for some reference as to how pathetic the U.S. is, Canada had 4 deaths yesterday.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on August 06, 2020, 01:34:17 pm
'CDC director Robert Redfield dropped some bombshell news during a talk he gave two weeks ago. But despite its significance, hardly anyone knows about the sickening bit of data he let slip:

“We’re seeing, sadly, far greater suicides now than we are deaths from Covid. We’re seeing far greater deaths from drug overdose, that are above excess, than we had as background, than we are seeing deaths from Covid.”'

https://www.redstate.com/michael_thau/2020/07/27/head-of-cdc-lockdown-suicides-drug-ods-killing-way-more-americans-than-covid/

Of course, the knuckleheads here and in the media/government/masses ignored that and still stick to 'lockdowns are the way'.

Hello you complete idiots/cowards?
 The head of the fucking CDC has freely admitted that the lockdowns are killing more people than COVID-19 is?

Oh, but let me guess? You morons will say 'if it was not for the lockdowns, there would be SO many more deaths.'.
Wrong dumbasses.

'Top Norwegian health official: We could have controlled coronavirus without a lockdown'
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/top-norway-health-official-we-could-have-controlled-coronavirus-without-a-lockdown

And if that is not enough for you ding  dong's...

'Covid-19 could kill more people through hunger than the virus itself, warns Oxfam'
'The fallout from coronavirus will push millions of the world's poorest people to the brink of starvation'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/covid-19-could-kill-people-hunger-virus-warns-oxfam/

And ALL of this could have been avoided by simply quarantining the old farts and/or those whom have serious health issues and leave the rest alone.

And NONE of this changes your minds.
 You don't care about all the people killing themselves/dying of drug addiction. You don't care that millions of poor people are at risk of starvation because of the lockdowns. You don't care that the top health official of Norway says the lockdowns were not necessary. You don't care about any of that.
 All you ignorant dufus care about is the old farts you know (or old farts you are) are a little safer. And if that means millions of innocent people have to die to make some old fart you care about feel a little safer? That is fine with you.

Not only are you people stupid and/or cowardly. But you are also staggeringly selfish. What a bunch of pathetic excuses for human beings ALL of you people are whom are for the lockdowns at the expense of millions of innocent deaths.

You people disgust me.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Inconspicuous on August 07, 2020, 01:30:04 am
The following information and data was compiled and posted yesterday by a friend of mine who runs a show on a national outlet.  The mainstream media in the United States won't present the actual, real data in this manner.  It's bad for their business.  It's time to end the panic porn.  Time for everyone to stop being scared and let all of us healthy citizens get back to normal life and assume the reasonably low level of risk.  Let the older and immuno-compromised people stay hunkered down.

"As of 5 p.m. eastern on Tuesday.

Percentage of Americans in nursing homes killed by #coronavirus: 3.6%. Percentage of Americans not in nursing homes killed by #coronavirus: .03%.

Percentage of Americans to test positive for #coronavirus: 1.5%. Percentage of Americans who currently are a positive #coronavirus case: 0.7%.

Percentage of Americans not in New York or New Jersey who have died of #coronavirus: .03%.

Total number of states with fewer than a thousand #coronavirus deaths: 24.

Total #coronavirus deaths in Arizona, Texas, Florida, and Georgia (the 4 red states the media tells you are disaster areas): 22,667. Total #coronavirus deaths in New York (which the media praises): 32,798. The 4 red states have almost 4 times the population of New York.

Number of 10 deadliest #coronavirus states that have mask mandates: 8. Number of 10 least deadliest states that do NOT have a mask mandate: 5.

Where blue states New York and New Jersey would rank in deaths/1 million population in the entire world if they were their own country: 1st. Where red states Arizona, Florida, Georgia, and Texas would rank in deaths/1 million population in the entire world if they were their own country: 13th. These 4 states have 4 times the population of New York and New Jersey.

U.S. deaths/1 million population with New York and New Jersey: 483. U.S. deaths/1 million population without New York and New Jersey: 358.

European countries with worse #coronavirus mortality than the U.S. if you subtract New York and New Jersey: Belgium, UK, Spain, Italy, Sweden, France, and Netherlands.
Take a look at these #coronavirus facts I just shared and ask yourself if this was worth losing one third of our GDP, cancelling our way of life, leaving loved ones to die alone, turning all other health issues away for months, and all the depression/suicides/and substance abuse?"
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: pc84 on August 09, 2020, 04:41:40 pm
Not gonna argue with any of those percentages and I'm glad that death percentages are as low as they are, that's definitely a positive. But you also can't cherry pick and subtract states when looking at the US as a whole.

I'm just still stuck on where the US is right now. Over 3,000 more deaths in the last three days. And again, other wealthy/affluent countries like the US don't have this problem. I'll say that over and over again.

Other countries like the U.S. took this seriously and have started to successfully move on a long time ago. And it's to the point that almost every other country in the world won't let Americans in because we've been horrible with dealing with Covid. Canada is tired of Americans crossing the border in to Canada, how is that for some irony?

Deaths per million people over the last 7 days:
U.S. - 21
U.K. - 5
France - 0.9
Italy - 0.8
Japan - 0.2

The fact that we still can't get our shit together is so frustrating.

And schools in Georgia are open and already kids and teachers are in quarantine with positive Covid tests.

And yes, kids/teachers get the flu every year, but this isn't the flu. Covid survivors are showing long lasting (possibly permanent) respiratory damage.

Back in March if Trump had just said, "Hey everyone, we need to wear a mask, practice social distancing, and I'm going to send a ton of  money and supplies to states to test as many people as possible, so go get a test" we would have had this taken care of by May. But no, he was saying as of July that it was still a hoax.

And yeah, the media has definitely fanned the flames, I won't argue that. But as of today 165,000 Americans have died in under 6 months. And I don't care if they are mostly older people, that's someone's grandmother and grandfather who went earlier than they should have.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Eddie_Valiant on August 09, 2020, 09:29:57 pm
Not gonna argue with any of those percentages and I'm glad that death percentages are as low as they are, that's definitely a positive. But you also can't cherry pick and subtract states when looking at the US as a whole.

You can absolutely cherry-pick and subtract states in this scenario - it's not an apples-to-apples comparison, and the death toll numbers reported in NYC in particular distort the picture when applied to the nation as a whole. NYC has a very high population density, very high use of crowded public transportation, and elderly folks that tested COVID positive were sent back to stay in nursing homes where they infected many more elderly, driving the numbers up. This is not typical for most places in the US or the world.

Quote
Over 3,000 more deaths in the last three days. And again, other wealthy/affluent countries like the US don't have this problem. I'll say that over and over again.

Other countries like the U.S. took this seriously and have started to successfully move on a long time ago. The fact that we still can't get our shit together is so frustrating.

Back in March if Trump had just said, "Hey everyone, we need to wear a mask, practice social distancing, and I'm going to send a ton of  money and supplies to states to test as many people as possible, so go get a test" we would have had this taken care of by May. But no, he was saying as of July that it was still a hoax.

And yeah, the media has definitely fanned the flames, I won't argue that.

I'm definitely not a person who thinks the virus is a "hoax" but the fact is, for the vast majority of people, it's not nearly as bad as it has been made out to be. And the media has been hugely irresponsible with their fear-mongering and sensationalism. For example, when reporting on data stating that, based on antibody testing, infection rates appear to be higher than anticipated with most infected people being asymptomatic, a sane analysis would be that the virus is not as bad as expected for the majority of the population and that a higher infection rate means that the mortality rate of COVID has proven to be much lower than initially feared. But no, lresented with thus exact data, I have seen multiple media outlets twist the narrative to say that the higher infection numbers are a scary sign that we haven't been able to contain the spread and the virus is more contagious than we had originally anticipated. While the latter may be true, it is irrelevant if the data shows that most people are unnafected by the virus and it actually has a fairly low mortality rate.

Quote
But as of today 165,000 Americans have died in under 6 months. And I don't care if they are mostly older people, that's someone's grandmother and grandfather who went earlier than they should have.

There is no way that 165,000 Americans have died from COVID in the past 6 months. The numbers are totally false. And I'm not some crackpot conspiracy theorist; I am, however, interested in honestly reporting and analysing data. Here is a quick rundown of things to consider:

We know that there are scenarios where state governments have been witholding numbers. Florida was a widely-covered example: https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/04/29/florida-medical-examiners-were-releasing-coronavirus-death-data-the-state-made-them-stop/ (https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2020/04/29/florida-medical-examiners-were-releasing-coronavirus-death-data-the-state-made-them-stop/) And Trump has been pushing for less testing because more testing "makes the numbers look bad" https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/22/politics/donald-trump-testing-slow-down-response/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/22/politics/donald-trump-testing-slow-down-response/index.html) This kind of thing is absolutely assinine. Hard data and statistical numbers should not be politicized. Unfortunately they have been, and therefore cannot be trusted. Various grouos, on both sides, have self-interests in falsifying the data.

Beyond mere distortions and obscufation, however, some basic research shows that, once again, the numbers are totally false and exaggerated. The CDC has very specific guidelines for certifying cause of death. These standards have been in place since 2003 https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/revisions-of-the-us-standard-certificates-and-reports.htm (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/revisions-of-the-us-standard-certificates-and-reports.htm)

However, when COVID came on the scene, new temporary, COVID-specific guidlines were drawn up and enacted in April 2020: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/coding-and-reporting.htm (https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/covid19/coding-and-reporting.htm) Note that the Alril 2020 version nagates the importance ofin their role as the cause of death, as underlying conditions get listed in Line II, immediated cause of death is listed in Line I. Line II is ignored in reporting the statistics. So if you have congenital heart failure and the Dr. gives you a month to live, then you die in a week and they say you had COVID (which, per the CDC document, can be an opinion, no test required) it gets marked as a COVID death. If, however, you had congenital heart failure, caught the flu, and died, then the cause of death eould (rightly) be listed as congenital heart failure, with the flu listed in Line II as a contributing factor.

And this is the government's official position in counting COVID deaths. They don't try to hide it, the media just will not report it or question them on it. Here is the Govenor of IL in an official press conference laying out the facts, starting at 15:05: https://youtu.be/vM4_xJYD1uk (https://youtu.be/vM4_xJYD1uk) "The case definition is very simplistic. It means, at the time of death, umm, it was a COVID positive diagnosis. So that means that if you were in hospice and had already been given, you know, a few weeks to live and then you also were found to have COVID that would be counted as a COVID death. It means that if, umm, technically, even if you died of clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, umm,  everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of death."

So they are openly admitting that the numbers they are publishing are largely worthless, though these numbers are continuing to be used as the basis to shut down vast swaths of the economy and educstion system, whicb will have deep and long-term negative consequences. Clearly nobody wants to loose their parents or grandparents early - at the same time, we have to be realistic about the numbers. If COVID shaves a few weeks of of someone's life that already has a terminal condition, of course it's sad - but is that worth keeoing kids out of school for? Is that worth reducing their levels of education in an increasingly competitive worldwide talent and labor market? No. And, as nofed above, the majority of these nursing home deaths could have been avoided by not sending infected patients back into the nursing homes. Instead of nebulous directives to all fkr things like masks, a truly effective measure would have been to not put these eldery populations at risk by quarantining positive patients.

And if a complete misrepresentation of the data wasn't enough, the CDC completely bungled their job of counting and tracking cases on top of using dubious definitions in the certificstion process. The CDC has admitted that their numbers are totally bogus as they have not been tracking individual cases, just raw data. This includes people who have been tested multiple times as well as adding antibidy test totals to active-virus testing totals, equating to double-dipping and inflating the totals. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/us/politics/coronavirus-tests-cdc.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/us/politics/coronavirus-tests-cdc.html) and another example https://www.livescience.com/cdc-combined-covid-19-diagnostic-and-antibody-tests.html (https://www.livescience.com/cdc-combined-covid-19-diagnostic-and-antibody-tests.html)

Meanehile, the media continues to say that Sweden not locking down was a "disaster"..... when the data shows that their plan worked well as deaths and new infections have dramatically tapered-off after an initial spike https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/) Over the long-term, "flattening the curve" appears to be more problematic by prolonging the time the virus sticks around, and the longer it takes to get our economy back on-track, the more detrimental effects we're going to see on that front as well.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on August 12, 2020, 05:18:32 pm
Here is 100% proof that lockdowns do NOT work in controlling COVID-19 deaths.

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?yScale=log&zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-02-01..latest&deathsMetric=true&interval=smoothed&aligned=true&smoothing=7&country=USA~SWE&pickerMetric=location&pickerSort=asc

Sweden has NOT locked down - America has.
Yet America's deaths from COVID-19 are not slowing down.
Whereas Sweden's are ...drastically - down to almost nothing.

But okay - you don't like America as an example. Fine - let's use Germany. A country that locked down as well.
https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?yScale=log&zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-02-01..latest&deathsMetric=true&interval=smoothed&aligned=true&smoothing=7&country=DEU~SWE&pickerMetric=location&pickerSort=asc
 You will notice that both are reducing the daily deaths at almost the same rate. But according to you 'lockdowners' - that is impossible. But this is again 100% proof that lockdowns do NOT help to control deaths from COVID-19 any better than no lockdowns (except for the elderly/very sick people - who should be quarantined).

And save the Sweden death rate crap as Sweden already admitted that they blew it in the way they handled their old farts (they should have quarantined only them)...which is why so many of them died initially.
 But lockdowns of healthy people under 50 - who have only a tiny chance of dying from COVID-19 - were completely the wrong thing to do. And Sweden got that dead right.

And once again...https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/top-norway-health-official-we-could-have-controlled-coronavirus-without-a-lockdown

You lockdowners keep getting proven wrong again and again.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Inconspicuous on August 13, 2020, 03:18:12 pm
As of today in the US:

Only 3% of ER visits for COVID symptoms.
Only 1.9% of active cases are hospitalized.
Only .014% of Americans are hospitalized with COVID.
Only 0.7% of Americans are currently a positive case.
The median age of death is 78, which is the average life expectancy in the U.S.
We have conducted 41 million more tests than the next closest free country.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: KwukDuck on August 17, 2020, 02:11:31 pm
Interesting, i've not bothered with this for some weeks, and 888 still doesn't understand the point of lockdowns.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: TickleTheo on August 17, 2020, 06:11:15 pm
As of today in the US:

Only 3% of ER visits for COVID symptoms.
Yes. Just because COVID exists. People still get heart attacks/accidents/get injuried.

Only 1.9% of active cases are hospitalized.
Only .014% of Americans are hospitalized with COVID.
Only 0.7% of Americans are currently a positive case.
0.7% of the entire American population is a huge number of positive cases. If we hit 2.5% of total population, you can expect ER's to break down from the lack of resources/staff.

The median age of death is 78, which is the average life expectancy in the U.S.
Which just says that if you are older, you are just more likely to die. Young patients still occur and there can be serious complications even if you survive. Basically, you're asking others to gamble their lives for the chance they arn't the unlucky ones that will die/suffer lifelong damage.

We have conducted 41 million more tests than the next closest free country.
Of which has been mostly useless in halting the spread since results from testing is so slow, that by time you get the results. If you are positive, you're likely to have infected others. We've had to test more because we've had greater and more outbreaks then any other "Free" country.

=============

COVID should be treated as a marathon, we shouldn't be sprinting the entire time or we'll just drop dead before the finish line. That finish line being getting an effective vaccine and getting the enough doses out effectively to the population.

Mitigation and prevention will vastly help, but only if everyone does their part in it. Unfortunately, "Unity" seems to be the last thing the United States seems to be good at lately.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: phlalawyer on August 17, 2020, 07:55:03 pm
As of today in the US:

Only 3% of ER visits for COVID symptoms.
Only 1.9% of active cases are hospitalized.
Only .014% of Americans are hospitalized with COVID.
Only 0.7% of Americans are currently a positive case.
The median age of death is 78, which is the average life expectancy in the U.S.
We have conducted 41 million more tests than the next closest free country.

I am assuming you do not know anyone who has died from it or has been hospitalized from it. I know both. I suspect your attitude would change quickly if you talked to a survivor or the friend or relative of someone who died. Which part of the US do you live in?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on August 17, 2020, 11:03:46 pm
Interesting, i've not bothered with this for some weeks, and 888 still doesn't understand the point of lockdowns.
LOL...big talk from a guy whose only, proven credential is a co-moderator for a chat forum that seems predominantly populated by misogynistic freaks.

Let's see if you can fathom these numbers.

Sweden's COVID-19 death's per million is 567.8 (with no lockdowns).
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
Multiply that by America's population of 330 million and you get 187,374 deaths if America did not lockdown at ALL (like Sweden).
America has already had 173,716 COVID-19 deaths and she did lockdown.
So - AT MOST - the lockdown's saved 13,342 COVID-19 deaths.

And we already know that the lockdowns KILLED more than the total number that have died.
https://www.redstate.com/michael_thau/2020/07/27/head-of-cdc-lockdown-suicides-drug-ods-killing-way-more-americans-than-covid/

So that means that the lockdown's killed over 160,000 more people than if there had been no lockdowns. And that does not even include all the tens of thousands of deaths that will occur because millions of people could not get operations and cancer treatments during the lockdowns.
Plus - America is now in an economic depression.

Are you saying the lockdown's were beneficial for America vs. no lockdowns...YES OR NO?

No blather or excuses, please...just 'yes' or 'no'.

PS - Sweden's ICU's did not overflow due to no lockdowns...so you can throw that tired excuse out for your staggering levels of arrogance and ignorance on this subject.


 
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: pc84 on August 18, 2020, 02:27:45 am
In other news only 521 Americans died due to Covid yesterday. So that's progress right? Hopefully that trend continues.

Granted that was after 5 straights days of averaging 1,200 deaths per day, but let's hope we're moving in the right direction.

And of course the side note that schools are opening and thousands of kids are now in quarantine and schools are shutting back down because of infections. Almost 10% of all cases in the US right now are kids. Yikes.

Be a real shame to see kids grow up the rest of their lives with long term health problems and respiratory issues because of some dumb community members who think its "just the flu."

Good to see the White House is dealing with this appropriately and isn't distracted by shower-head regulations, Tik-tok, and trying to fight the Post Office.

*Sigh*

Oh hey, total deaths yesterday in:
Spain - 13
UK - 5
Italy - 4
France - 1
Greece - 3
Japan - 3
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on August 18, 2020, 02:55:14 am
In other news only 521 Americans died due to Covid yesterday. So that's progress right? Hopefully that trend continues.

Granted that was after 5 straights days of averaging 1,200 deaths per day, but let's hope we're moving in the right direction.

And of course the side note that schools are opening and thousands of kids are now in quarantine and schools are shutting back down because of infections. Almost 10% of all cases in the US right now are kids. Yikes.

Be a real shame to see kids grow up the rest of their lives with long term health problems and respiratory issues because of some dumb community members who think its "just the flu."

Good to see the White House is dealing with this appropriately and isn't distracted by shower-head regulations, Tik-tok, and trying to fight the Post Office.

*Sigh*

Oh hey, total deaths yesterday in:
Spain - 13
UK - 5
Italy - 4
France - 1
Greece - 3
Japan - 3


I'm always amused by trump and his supporters, insisting we break this down into smaller, more parochial statistics. "Well, if you look at percentage of deaths per case, we're clearly better than the rest of the world," and so on.

They remind me of an embittered, inept football coach at a press conference after losing yet another game. "Well, yes, the scoreboard shows we lost the game, but bear in mind, we had far more first downs than they did, and we gained almost 100 more yards running than they did; our receives gained many more yards after catches than theirs, and our quarterback had a MUCH higher QB rating. We had far fewer penalties, we didn't use all our times-out, we had far fewer penalties and our fans were much nicer than theirs. "

 Yeah, that's real nice, but the scoreboard tells the whole tale, doesn't it?

More than 170,000 people dead in six months, and the numbers steadily rising, with all EXPERT predictions being that the inept, haphazard, half-assed fashion the US is opening schools is going to lead to yet another huge spike, headed into flu season.

Yep, the micro managed stats are paint a real pretty picture, but the reality of the REAL numbers are all that matters.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on August 19, 2020, 08:47:52 pm

More than 170,000 people dead in six months, and the numbers steadily rising, with all EXPERT predictions being that the inept, haphazard, half-assed fashion the US is opening schools is going to lead to yet another huge spike, headed into flu season.


1) 'all EXPERT' - no offense, but what a ridiculous statement. You don't know who 'all' the 'experts' even are. So to say 'all of them' have said anything is totally unprovable.

2) you want an 'expert' opinion? Okay:
https://www.redstate.com/michael_thau/2020/07/27/head-of-cdc-lockdown-suicides-drug-ods-killing-way-more-americans-than-covid/

That means that the lockdown has CAUSED more deaths than the virus has in America.

Plus, if you use the Swedish death rate - there would only be about 13,000+ extra deaths in America then there are now (as I cited above).
That means that had America had no lockdowns, well over 150,000 more Americans would be alive now then with the lockdowns.
And that is ALL from 'experts'.


But - let me guess - you only choose to believe the 'experts' that support your narrative?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on August 19, 2020, 08:48:49 pm
Here is more data for you lockdown lovers to ignore:

https://www.redstate.com/michael_thau/2020/07/27/head-of-cdc-lockdown-suicides-drug-ods-killing-way-more-americans-than-covid/
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: pc84 on August 20, 2020, 02:07:52 am
Nope, death bounced back up.

U.S. deaths yesterday: 1,358
So far today: +1,200

Deaths yesterday in:

Canada - 13
UK - 12
Italy - 5
Germany 9
Sweden - 1
South Korea - 1
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: MidnightBoobies on August 20, 2020, 03:55:41 pm
They just took my friends dad off the ventilator after two weeks. He's in this mid-70's and it started with a fever, then just went downhill till they got him into the hospital.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on August 21, 2020, 02:30:18 am

More than 170,000 people dead in six months, and the numbers steadily rising, with all EXPERT predictions being that the inept, haphazard, half-assed fashion the US is opening schools is going to lead to yet another huge spike, headed into flu season.


1) 'all EXPERT' - no offense, but what a ridiculous statement. You don't know who 'all' the 'experts' even are. So to say 'all of them' have said anything is totally unprovable.

2) you want an 'expert' opinion? Okay:
https://www.redstate.com/michael_thau/2020/07/27/head-of-cdc-lockdown-suicides-drug-ods-killing-way-more-americans-than-covid/

That means that the lockdown has CAUSED more deaths than the virus has in America.

Plus, if you use the Swedish death rate - there would only be about 13,000+ extra deaths in America then there are now (as I cited above).
That means that had America had no lockdowns, well over 150,000 more Americans would be alive now then with the lockdowns.
And that is ALL from 'experts'.


But - let me guess - you only choose to believe the 'experts' that support your narrative?

Excuse me for painting with a broad brush. MOST REPUTABLE experts are saying it's going to get worse as the second wave piles onto the first wave that never went away, along with flu season.

And as for your link, the author does some pretty fancy dancing to take Dr. Redfield completely out of context, and conclude when he says there are more suicides than COVID deaths, that means the lockdowns are to blame. If that were true, suicides would be easing as states open, and that's not happening. Psychology Today did a piece about COVID related suicides, and found the pandemic itself is feeding depression. For instance, the early March story in Italy about the young man with a nasty cough, who jumped out a hospital window while waiting for his test results.

As the evil orange Caligula has stated, "It is what it is." You can take as much nonsense out of context as you want, you can play with statistics all you want, you can claim 80% of localities are seeing improvement, but the numbers do NOT lie.  South Korea had ONE death yesterday, compared to 1358 in the US. Imagine if 1358 people died of ANYTHING in one day when Obama was president. Would you be rationalizing and dancing around the facts to defend him? When two Americans died of Ebola, right wing media went batshit. And it should also be said right wing media also ranted and raved about what a waste it was to deploy American troops to Africa to build field hospitals, and to send CDC and NIH people to isolate and track infections, thus saving the world from something that was MUCH deadlier than COVID.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: CyBerLee on August 21, 2020, 05:35:04 am
Hopelessness is one of the main ingredient for suicide, and health care worker been vulnerable to this, working hours trying to save people while seeing people turning this wearing mask into a political war. I survive the covid infection back in the beginning of February, even tho I didn't have severe respiratory issues, I did take one to the digestive system. Aerobically I also took a hit, and I suspect heart damage like 80% of the covid survivor. They saw many patches of white spot in my upper intestine from blood clotting of the intestine, which makes eating unpleasant. Im taking medication for the intestine and eating smaller meals. Lost 15 pound immediately after getting it, and now weight is near stable. If we hadn't squander our lockdown time like most nation, we would have built back our economy, instead of dragging this out shutting down jobs and factory with no recovery in sight. I'm depress reading some of the comments here still turning this into a political front for Trump, while ignoring medical experts for testing and tracing and wearing mask.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Keish on August 21, 2020, 02:34:36 pm
Even here in Italy COVID-19 is mainly a political issue. And a generational one as well. Myself, got infected in march and, even without extreme consequences,  now I have to cope with one of of the most common so-called "light injuries": loss of sense of smell and taste. It lightly recovered in weeks, but I know I will never have another nice meat dish (it tastes and smells like *hit now) and another great glass of wine either (now it simply seems a glass of water with some alcohol poured in... and I was a wine connoisseur). Not to mention two or three dozens of other pleasant smells (my wife skin, every perfume, flowers, fruit, just to mention a few), which I miss greatly. They are simply not present anymore in my perceptive range. Gone. Deleted. Its a neurological damage and i can count only on the so called "neuronal plasticity". And hope for the better.
Here we had a huge lockdown, but these last weeks people seem really tired with all the safety procedures. Italians are getting bored. Young people party, go dancing, forget any mask or wear it proudly... tied on their arms. Average age of the new cases is going down, and now its approaching 30 yo. All this just because people started to feel safe and were inclined to show they were "smarter" and bolder. After all this, every time I hear or read right wing people gambling with other people's lives, I just feel outraged. A new wave it is coming, noone seems really care, a lot of people will get hurt, simple procedures can avoid 90% of it and still there is someone shouting he is better and smarter and "knows better".
Come on, grow up.   
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Dom on August 21, 2020, 03:28:29 pm
Even here in Italy COVID-19 is mainly a political issue. And a generational one as well. Myself, got infected in march and, even without extreme consequences,  now I have to cope with one of of the most common so-called "light injuries": loss of sense of smell and taste. It lightly recovered in weeks, but I know I will never have another nice meat dish (it tastes and smells like *hit now) and another great glass of wine either (now it simply seems a glass of water with some alcohol poured in... and I was a wine connoisseur). Not to mention two or three dozens of other pleasant smells (my wife skin, every perfume, flowers, fruit, just to mention a few), which I miss greatly. They are simply not present anymore in my perceptive range. Gone. Deleted. Its a neurological damage and i can count only on the so called "neuronal plasticity". And hope for the better.
Here we had a huge lockdown, but these last weeks people seem really tired with all the safety procedures. Italians are getting bored. Young people party, go dancing, forget any mask or wear it proudly... tied on their arms. Average age of the new cases is going down, and now its approaching 30 yo. All this just because people started to feel safe and were inclined to show they were "smarter" and bolder. After all this, every time I hear or read right wing people gambling with other people's lives, I just feel outraged. A new wave it is coming, noone seems really care, a lot of people will get hurt, simple procedures can avoid 90% of it and still there is someone shouting he is better and smarter and "knows better".
Come on, grow up.   
Now that`s unlucky, I feel with you! I caught COVID-19 late March / early April, very mild symptoms and luckily no long term damage. I really feel sorry for you not being able tasting wine and fine food, fingers crossed for a full recovery!
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: CyBerLee on August 22, 2020, 04:45:04 am
I think I got it early as late January, but I got dizzy and fell down on Feb 10th the second time that happen, so I knew something was off. I lost my taste and smell as well, and got most of it back about a month ago. I lost 15 pound in the month of Feb and gain back 5 pound so far. For several month it felt like I had just got done running 5 miles after I eat and get very nauseous. Rapid heart rate was becoming the new normal after eating. I went to bed sleeping at 120bpm and I think that why people die mainly the heart giving out. I am a runner so I am use to having the heart go up to 150 during a 45 minute run. Even today I feel weaker before I got it. But I can run up to 30 minute and lift weight. I started playing my saxophone again after 30 years of not having it. My theory is that pressurize the lung while playing the wind instrument will build my lungs again. Learning to breath again to play the instrument. The nervous system took a hit as well, like a spider bite it seems to work it way thru the body. One week of left arm twitching and another week the other arm and then it moves to my stomachs, and then face upper lip, and now its mostly in the neck. I think that's why it was hard for doctor to treat it, when they realize it wasn't just in the lungs. Keep moving and push yourself to get stronger!
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on August 23, 2020, 01:35:36 am
My full sympathies go to those who have suffered this. And I cannot help but wonder, I got VERY sick the first week of December last year. I had NO energy whatsoever. I'd get out of bed long enough to eat breakfast, and take my regular prescribed meds, and then I had to go back to bed, and I'd sleep until mid afternoon, when I'd get up long enough to eat, and then go back to bed until the early evening. And I never had an appetite in the evening. I had serious sinus problems, (The pressure was so bad, I couldn't move my head without experiencing excruciating pain,) and just walking from one end of the room to another was a major ordeal. It culminated with a seizure, wherein I cut my head pretty bad on the bathroom vanity.

Reading and hearing the stories of people who've had COVID, make me glad now that my ordeal was relatively easy in comparison.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: CyBerLee on August 23, 2020, 07:50:24 pm
Sounds like you had it! The headache was massive like I never had before. Felt like my scalp was on fire to touch. The massive headache seems to be the number one common issues I think. Along with a thermometer, a finger oximeter is also a good idea to have these days. The headache is basically the lack of oxygen getting to the brain. I am watching slowly more oxygen getting to my body as I was healing for the last 3 month.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: KwukDuck on August 23, 2020, 11:20:57 pm
Sounds like you had it! The headache was massive like I never had before. Felt like my scalp was on fire to touch. The massive headache seems to be the number one common issues I think. Along with a thermometer, a finger oximeter is also a good idea to have these days. The headache is basically the lack of oxygen getting to the brain. I am watching slowly more oxygen getting to my body as I was healing for the last 3 month.

Just curious, what are your SpO2 levels?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on August 24, 2020, 03:12:22 am

More than 170,000 people dead in six months, and the numbers steadily rising, with all EXPERT predictions being that the inept, haphazard, half-assed fashion the US is opening schools is going to lead to yet another huge spike, headed into flu season.


1) 'all EXPERT' - no offense, but what a ridiculous statement. You don't know who 'all' the 'experts' even are. So to say 'all of them' have said anything is totally unprovable.

2) you want an 'expert' opinion? Okay:
https://www.redstate.com/michael_thau/2020/07/27/head-of-cdc-lockdown-suicides-drug-ods-killing-way-more-americans-than-covid/

That means that the lockdown has CAUSED more deaths than the virus has in America.

Plus, if you use the Swedish death rate - there would only be about 13,000+ extra deaths in America then there are now (as I cited above).
That means that had America had no lockdowns, well over 150,000 more Americans would be alive now then with the lockdowns.
And that is ALL from 'experts'.


But - let me guess - you only choose to believe the 'experts' that support your narrative?

Excuse me for painting with a broad brush. MOST REPUTABLE experts are saying it's going to get worse as the second wave piles onto the first wave that never went away, along with flu season.

And as for your link, the author does some pretty fancy dancing to take Dr. Redfield completely out of context, and conclude when he says there are more suicides than COVID deaths, that means the lockdowns are to blame. If that were true, suicides would be easing as states open, and that's not happening. Psychology Today did a piece about COVID related suicides, and found the pandemic itself is feeding depression. For instance, the early March story in Italy about the young man with a nasty cough, who jumped out a hospital window while waiting for his test results.

As the evil orange Caligula has stated, "It is what it is." You can take as much nonsense out of context as you want, you can play with statistics all you want, you can claim 80% of localities are seeing improvement, but the numbers do NOT lie.  South Korea had ONE death yesterday, compared to 1358 in the US. Imagine if 1358 people died of ANYTHING in one day when Obama was president. Would you be rationalizing and dancing around the facts to defend him? When two Americans died of Ebola, right wing media went batshit. And it should also be said right wing media also ranted and raved about what a waste it was to deploy American troops to Africa to build field hospitals, and to send CDC and NIH people to isolate and track infections, thus saving the world from something that was MUCH deadlier than COVID.

1) And where is this list of 'reputable experts' you are referring to? The ONLY way to know 'most' have given a certain opinion is to know how many there are in the first place.

2) Out of context?
He said the following:

'“We’re seeing, sadly, far greater suicides now than we are deaths from Covid. We’re seeing far greater deaths from drug overdose, that are above excess, than we had as background, than we are seeing deaths from Covid.”'

Those are numerical FACTS.

Of course the lockdowns are to blame.

You obviously just refuse to believe the truth because it knocks something you obviously believe in strongly...lockdowns.

You want more proof?

'The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic has been associated with mental health challenges related to the morbidity and mortality caused by the disease and to mitigation activities, including the impact of physical distancing and stay-at-home orders.* Symptoms of anxiety disorder and depressive disorder increased considerably in the United States during April–June of 2020, compared with the same period in 2019 (1,2). To assess mental health, substance use, and suicidal ideation during the pandemic, representative panel surveys were conducted among adults aged ≥18 years across the United States during June 24–30, 2020. Overall, 40.9% of respondents reported at least one adverse mental or behavioral health condition, including symptoms of anxiety disorder or depressive disorder (30.9%), symptoms of a trauma- and stressor-related disorder (TSRD) related to the pandemic† (26.3%), and having started or increased substance use to cope with stress or emotions related to COVID-19 (13.3%). The percentage of respondents who reported having seriously considered suicide in the 30 days before completing the survey (10.7%) was significantly higher among respondents aged 18–24 years (25.5%), minority racial/ethnic groups (Hispanic respondents [18.6%], non-Hispanic black  respondents [15.1%]), self-reported unpaid caregivers for adults§ (30.7%), and essential workers¶ (21.7%). Community-level intervention and prevention efforts, including health communication strategies, designed to reach these groups could help address various mental health conditions associated with the COVID-19 pandemic.'

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6932a1.htm

And more proof...'A study by Mental Health Index published this month shows the risk for depression among U.S. workers has risen an alarming 102% since February of this year.'

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryanrobinson/2020/08/22/upsurge-in-depression-and-suicide-among-american-workers-during-the-pandemic-and-what-needs-to-be-done/#206d523ddb53

Why else do you think depression amongst workers in America has more than doubled since February? It's OBVIOUSLY because of the lockdowns.

How many more links to data do you need before you will admit that the lockdowns are causing a MASSIVE increase in suicides and suicidal thoughts?
Just give me a number, please?

And this does NOT include all the increased deaths from drug overdoses PLUS all the many thousands of deaths that will occur because people who needed medical care have not been getting it.


3) And please stop posting numbers without links. I don't care what you say you read in Psychology Today. I only care what it actually said.
 The odds of dying of COVID-19 if you are otherwise healthy is over 1,500:1 AGAINST. Most people know only old farts and/or REALLY sick people are dying of COVID-19. Why would a young person be depressed about dying of something that it is virtually impossible for them to die from? That makes no sense.
 There are 14 MILLION less Americans employed over this time, last year in America (ALL due to the lockdowns).
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.a.htm
Are you seriously suggesting that the reason Americans are killing themselves in far greater numbers in 2020 is more due to a virus with a death rate barely over a serious flu (about 1/2 of 1%) that virtually only kills the old or the very sick? Rather then the 14+ million unemployed due to the lockdowns?



Look...I will make it simple for you and all the other 'lockdowners'.

Sweden's COVID-19 death's per million is 567.8 (with no lockdowns).
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
Multiply that by America's population of 330 million and you get 187,374 deaths if America did not lockdown at ALL (like Sweden).
America has already had 173,716 COVID-19 deaths and she did lockdown.

So - AT MOST - the lockdown's saved 13,342 COVID-19 deaths in America.

That means that if all the suicides and drug O/D deaths and deaths because of lack of cancer treatments/medical procedures that are because of the lockdowns TOGETHER equals more than 13,342 (and we know they are - even the CDC  admits it)?
Than we KNOW that the lockdowns have killed more people than they have saved.

And that makes them a 100% failure.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: CyBerLee on August 24, 2020, 06:37:34 am
Sounds like you had it! The headache was massive like I never had before. Felt like my scalp was on fire to touch. The massive headache seems to be the number one common issues I think. Along with a thermometer, a finger oximeter is also a good idea to have these days. The headache is basically the lack of oxygen getting to the brain. I am watching slowly more oxygen getting to my body as I was healing for the last 3 month.

Just curious, what are your SpO2 levels?
Back in may they were around 93-94 and the thing would beep warning, now its in the 96-97, and no more panic attack and rapid heartbeat. But there were times I didn't think I wake up the next morning when I went to bed at 120 bpm for 3 nites.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on August 25, 2020, 03:51:37 am

More than 170,000 people dead in six months, and the numbers steadily rising, with all EXPERT predictions being that the inept, haphazard, half-assed fashion the US is opening schools is going to lead to yet another huge spike, headed into flu season.


1) 'all EXPERT' - no offense, but what a ridiculous statement. You don't know who 'all' the 'experts' even are. So to say 'all of them' have said anything is totally unprovable.

2) you want an 'expert' opinion? Okay:
https://www.redstate.com/michael_thau/2020/07/27/head-of-cdc-lockdown-suicides-drug-ods-killing-way-more-americans-than-covid/

That means that the lockdown has CAUSED more deaths than the virus has in America.

Plus, if you use the Swedish death rate - there would only be about 13,000+ extra deaths in America then there are now (as I cited above).
That means that had America had no lockdowns, well over 150,000 more Americans would be alive now then with the lockdowns.
And that is ALL from 'experts'.


But - let me guess - you only choose to believe the 'experts' that support your narrative?

Excuse me for painting with a broad brush. MOST REPUTABLE experts are saying it's going to get worse as the second wave piles onto the first wave that never went away, along with flu season.

And as for your link, the author does some pretty fancy dancing to take Dr. Redfield completely out of context, and conclude when he says there are more suicides than COVID deaths, that means the lockdowns are to blame. If that were true, suicides would be easing as states open, and that's not happening. Psychology Today did a piece about COVID related suicides, and found the pandemic itself is feeding depression. For instance, the early March story in Italy about the young man with a nasty cough, who jumped out a hospital window while waiting for his test results.

As the evil orange Caligula has stated, "It is what it is." You can take as much nonsense out of context as you want, you can play with statistics all you want, you can claim 80% of localities are seeing improvement, but the numbers do NOT lie.  South Korea had ONE death yesterday, compared to 1358 in the US. Imagine if 1358 people died of ANYTHING in one day when Obama was president. Would you be rationalizing and dancing around the facts to defend him? When two Americans died of Ebola, right wing media went batshit. And it should also be said right wing media also ranted and raved about what a waste it was to deploy American troops to Africa to build field hospitals, and to send CDC and NIH people to isolate and track infections, thus saving the world from something that was MUCH deadlier than COVID.

1) And where is this list of 'reputable experts' you are referring to? The ONLY way to know 'most' have given a certain opinion is to know how many there are in the first place.

2) Out of context?
He said the following:

'“We’re seeing, sadly, far greater suicides now than we are deaths from Covid. We’re seeing far greater deaths from drug overdose, that are above excess, than we had as background, than we are seeing deaths from Covid.”'

Those are numerical FACTS.

Of course the lockdowns are to blame.

You obviously just refuse to believe the truth because it knocks something you obviously believe in strongly...lockdowns.

You want more proof?

'The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic has been associated with mental health challenges related to the morbidity and mortality caused by the disease and to mitigation activities, including the impact of physical distancing and stay-at-home orders.* Symptoms of anxiety disorder and depressive disorder increased considerably in the United States during April–June of 2020, compared with the same period in 2019 (1,2). To assess mental health, substance use, and suicidal ideation during the pandemic, representative panel surveys were conducted among adults aged ≥18 years across the United States during June 24–30, 2020. Overall, 40.9% of respondents reported at least one adverse mental or behavioral health condition, including symptoms of anxiety disorder or depressive disorder (30.9%), symptoms of a trauma- and stressor-related disorder (TSRD) related to the pandemic† (26.3%), and having started or increased substance use to cope with stress or emotions related to COVID-19 (13.3%). The percentage of respondents who reported having seriously considered suicide in the 30 days before completing the survey (10.7%) was significantly higher among respondents aged 18–24 years (25.5%), minority racial/ethnic groups (Hispanic respondents [18.6%], non-Hispanic black  respondents [15.1%]), self-reported unpaid caregivers for adults§ (30.7%), and essential workers¶ (21.7%). Community-level intervention and prevention efforts, including health communication strategies, designed to reach these groups could help address various mental health conditions associated with the COVID-19 pandemic.'

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6932a1.htm

And more proof...'A study by Mental Health Index published this month shows the risk for depression among U.S. workers has risen an alarming 102% since February of this year.'

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryanrobinson/2020/08/22/upsurge-in-depression-and-suicide-among-american-workers-during-the-pandemic-and-what-needs-to-be-done/#206d523ddb53

Why else do you think depression amongst workers in America has more than doubled since February? It's OBVIOUSLY because of the lockdowns.

How many more links to data do you need before you will admit that the lockdowns are causing a MASSIVE increase in suicides and suicidal thoughts?
Just give me a number, please?

And this does NOT include all the increased deaths from drug overdoses PLUS all the many thousands of deaths that will occur because people who needed medical care have not been getting it.


3) And please stop posting numbers without links. I don't care what you say you read in Psychology Today. I only care what it actually said.
 The odds of dying of COVID-19 if you are otherwise healthy is over 1,500:1 AGAINST. Most people know only old farts and/or REALLY sick people are dying of COVID-19. Why would a young person be depressed about dying of something that it is virtually impossible for them to die from? That makes no sense.
 There are 14 MILLION less Americans employed over this time, last year in America (ALL due to the lockdowns).
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.a.htm
Are you seriously suggesting that the reason Americans are killing themselves in far greater numbers in 2020 is more due to a virus with a death rate barely over a serious flu (about 1/2 of 1%) that virtually only kills the old or the very sick? Rather then the 14+ million unemployed due to the lockdowns?



Look...I will make it simple for you and all the other 'lockdowners'.

Sweden's COVID-19 death's per million is 567.8 (with no lockdowns).
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
Multiply that by America's population of 330 million and you get 187,374 deaths if America did not lockdown at ALL (like Sweden).
America has already had 173,716 COVID-19 deaths and she did lockdown.

So - AT MOST - the lockdown's saved 13,342 COVID-19 deaths in America.

That means that if all the suicides and drug O/D deaths and deaths because of lack of cancer treatments/medical procedures that are because of the lockdowns TOGETHER equals more than 13,342 (and we know they are - even the CDC  admits it)?
Than we KNOW that the lockdowns have killed more people than they have saved.

And that makes them a 100% failure.

Congratulations. In one very long-winded, post, you proved my point perfectly. Here's the bottom line: the failures of the US are in the absolute numbers. You can throw all the peripheral nonsense at it you want, but NOTHING, changes almost 180,000 dead and millions infected, with no end in sight. Play your games all you want. I'll listen to science. Reputable science. If that bothers you, so be it. We can go in circles for an eternity, but it's always going to be the same. Unless and until the US adopts and implements a centralized national strategy to isolate and control this problem nationwide, the virus will remain a drag on the economy and everything else.  We can argue this more, but neither of us will change the other's mind. So I will move on.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: CyBerLee on August 25, 2020, 05:31:12 am
"Congratulations. In one very long-winded, post, you proved my point perfectly. Here's the bottom line: the failures of the US are in the absolute numbers. You can throw all the peripheral nonsense at it you want, but NOTHING, changes almost 180,000 dead and millions infected, with no end in sight. Play your games all you want. I'll listen to science. Reputable science. If that bothers you, so be it. We can go in circles for an eternity, but it's always going to be the same. Unless and until the US adopts and implements a centralized national strategy to isolate and control this problem nationwide, the virus will remain a drag on the economy and everything else.  We can argue this more, but neither of us will change the other's mind. So I will move on. "

I agree 100% until we have a plan and strategize nationally this will keep bouncing back and forth. Not only that but we are losing credibility across the globe for keeping this in play and thus created a wall around the country with a no entry allowed by other nations. The places where we do massive business. My friends in Europe is getting piss at the USA, they can try to control this all they want, but without a global effort, we will just keep passing it back and forth and possibly allow it to mutate it even more deadly.

Kwuk, the other interesting part is that my hair was shedding massively a month or two afterward, when I lost 15 pound I think my hair also suffered from lack of nutrition.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Inconspicuous on August 25, 2020, 02:46:38 pm
Per Worldometers.info:

-We have conducted 36 million more tests in the US than the next-closest free country, which is India and it has four times the population we have.

-Only 16,717 of our current 2.53 million cases are in serious or critical care. That means only 0.6% of our coronavirus cases are currently in serious and critical conditions nationwide. That means in a nation of 331 million, only .005% of the American population is in critical or serious condition with COVID.

-Regarding the complaint "the world is testing better than us" you will see the U.S. is conducting more tests per million population than the following countries: Australia, UK, Spain, New Zealand (the shutdown darling), Canada, Italy, Germany, Hong Kong, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden, and France among many others.

-Dr. Birx and others wished we had locked down like Italy did. Except Italy still has a worse death rate than the U.S. does -- as does Spain and the UK.

-Daily new cases have been declining the last 5 weeks.

-Despite leading the free world in mass testing, only 1.7% of Americans have tested positive for Coronavirus.

-Our current CFR for coronavirus is 3%, one of the lowest in the world for an industrialized country.

- .05% of Americans have died WITH Covid. And keep in mind we already know over 40% of all Covid deaths occurred in nursing homes where 0.6% of Americans live. Which means .03% of Americans not living in nursing homes have died WITH Covid.

-Despite the Fake News narrative, New York and New Jersey remain the deadliest states for Covid and it's not even close. Still 1 out of ever 4 deaths WITH Covid in the entire country are from just those two states, with a combined population of 28 million.

-Despite the Fake News narrative, the Sun Belt wave of Arizona, Florida, Georgia, and Texas produced 16 thousand FEWER deaths WITH Covid than New York and New Jersey, despite those four states having triple the population.

-Despite the Fake News narrative, it is Florida Governor Ron DeSantis who should be praised and not New York Governor Andrew Cuomo. DeSantis has a larger elderly population, and his state's current CFR for Covid is just 1.7%. Both well below the national CFR of 3% and way superior to New York's ghastly CFR of 7.1%.

-In fact, all the Sun Belt states pilloried by the Fake News narrative have a CFR below both the national number of 3% and way below New York's number of 7.1% -- Florida (1.7%), Texas (1.9%), Georgia (2%), and Arizona (2.4%).

-20 states still haven't even reached 1 thousands deaths WITH Covid.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: The_Big_Guava on August 26, 2020, 04:42:01 am
So I will move on.

Yeah I doubt that. You've been preaching doom and gloom for 5 months now.  Just renounce your U.S. Citizenship and STFU.

It's a bunch of fucking bullshit released on the world solely to topple Trump. No, I'm not a Trump fan but I'm not an idiot either.

Where's your mask been for the past 10 years for the TB pandemic?
https://www.tballiance.org/why-new-tb-drugs/global-pandemic

The reality is you just really really hate the U.S. and the president in particular.  So do us all a favor and actually follow through on your threat.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on August 26, 2020, 09:24:53 am
UK lockdown was a ‘monumental mistake’ and must not happen again – Boris scientist says

'LOCKDOWN will come to be seen as a "monumental mistake on a global scale" and must never happen again, a scientist who advises the Government on infectious diseases says.

Mark Woolhouse said lockdown was a “panic measure” but admitted it was the only option at the time because “we couldn’t think of anything better to do”.

But it is a crude measure that takes no accounts of the risk levels to different individuals, the University of Edinburgh professor said, meaning that back in March the nation was “concentrating on schools when we should have been concentrating on care homes”.

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The professor of infectious disease epidemiology said that the Government must now focus on increasing testing and striving to unlock society safely rather than restricting it further.

Prof Woolhouse OBE, a member of the Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Behaviours that advises the Government, said: “Lockdown was a panic measure and I believe history will say trying to control Covid-19 through lockdown was a monumental mistake on a global scale, the cure was worse than the disease.

“I never want to see national lockdown again. It was always a temporary measure that simply delayed the stage of the epidemic we see now. It was never going to change anything fundamentally, however low we drove down the number of cases, and now we know more about the virus and how to track it we should not be in this position again.

“We absolutely should never return to a position where children cannot play or go to school.

“I believe the harm lockdown is doing to our education, health care access, and broader aspects of our economy and society will turn out to be at least as great as the harm done by Covid-19.”'

[/b]
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1320428/Coronavirus-news-lockdown-mistake-second-wave-Boris-Johnson

And this guy knows a heck of a lot more about it then you 'lockdowners' do.

What I and many others have been saying from the beginning...lockdowns ARE WRONG.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on August 26, 2020, 09:29:51 am

More than 170,000 people dead in six months, and the numbers steadily rising, with all EXPERT predictions being that the inept, haphazard, half-assed fashion the US is opening schools is going to lead to yet another huge spike, headed into flu season.


1) 'all EXPERT' - no offense, but what a ridiculous statement. You don't know who 'all' the 'experts' even are. So to say 'all of them' have said anything is totally unprovable.

2) you want an 'expert' opinion? Okay:
https://www.redstate.com/michael_thau/2020/07/27/head-of-cdc-lockdown-suicides-drug-ods-killing-way-more-americans-than-covid/

That means that the lockdown has CAUSED more deaths than the virus has in America.

Plus, if you use the Swedish death rate - there would only be about 13,000+ extra deaths in America then there are now (as I cited above).
That means that had America had no lockdowns, well over 150,000 more Americans would be alive now then with the lockdowns.
And that is ALL from 'experts'.


But - let me guess - you only choose to believe the 'experts' that support your narrative?

Excuse me for painting with a broad brush. MOST REPUTABLE experts are saying it's going to get worse as the second wave piles onto the first wave that never went away, along with flu season.

And as for your link, the author does some pretty fancy dancing to take Dr. Redfield completely out of context, and conclude when he says there are more suicides than COVID deaths, that means the lockdowns are to blame. If that were true, suicides would be easing as states open, and that's not happening. Psychology Today did a piece about COVID related suicides, and found the pandemic itself is feeding depression. For instance, the early March story in Italy about the young man with a nasty cough, who jumped out a hospital window while waiting for his test results.

As the evil orange Caligula has stated, "It is what it is." You can take as much nonsense out of context as you want, you can play with statistics all you want, you can claim 80% of localities are seeing improvement, but the numbers do NOT lie.  South Korea had ONE death yesterday, compared to 1358 in the US. Imagine if 1358 people died of ANYTHING in one day when Obama was president. Would you be rationalizing and dancing around the facts to defend him? When two Americans died of Ebola, right wing media went batshit. And it should also be said right wing media also ranted and raved about what a waste it was to deploy American troops to Africa to build field hospitals, and to send CDC and NIH people to isolate and track infections, thus saving the world from something that was MUCH deadlier than COVID.

1) And where is this list of 'reputable experts' you are referring to? The ONLY way to know 'most' have given a certain opinion is to know how many there are in the first place.

2) Out of context?
He said the following:

'“We’re seeing, sadly, far greater suicides now than we are deaths from Covid. We’re seeing far greater deaths from drug overdose, that are above excess, than we had as background, than we are seeing deaths from Covid.”'

Those are numerical FACTS.

Of course the lockdowns are to blame.

You obviously just refuse to believe the truth because it knocks something you obviously believe in strongly...lockdowns.

You want more proof?

'The coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic has been associated with mental health challenges related to the morbidity and mortality caused by the disease and to mitigation activities, including the impact of physical distancing and stay-at-home orders.* Symptoms of anxiety disorder and depressive disorder increased considerably in the United States during April–June of 2020, compared with the same period in 2019 (1,2). To assess mental health, substance use, and suicidal ideation during the pandemic, representative panel surveys were conducted among adults aged ≥18 years across the United States during June 24–30, 2020. Overall, 40.9% of respondents reported at least one adverse mental or behavioral health condition, including symptoms of anxiety disorder or depressive disorder (30.9%), symptoms of a trauma- and stressor-related disorder (TSRD) related to the pandemic† (26.3%), and having started or increased substance use to cope with stress or emotions related to COVID-19 (13.3%). The percentage of respondents who reported having seriously considered suicide in the 30 days before completing the survey (10.7%) was significantly higher among respondents aged 18–24 years (25.5%), minority racial/ethnic groups (Hispanic respondents [18.6%], non-Hispanic black  respondents [15.1%]), self-reported unpaid caregivers for adults§ (30.7%), and essential workers¶ (21.7%). Community-level intervention and prevention efforts, including health communication strategies, designed to reach these groups could help address various mental health conditions associated with the COVID-19 pandemic.'

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6932a1.htm

And more proof...'A study by Mental Health Index published this month shows the risk for depression among U.S. workers has risen an alarming 102% since February of this year.'

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bryanrobinson/2020/08/22/upsurge-in-depression-and-suicide-among-american-workers-during-the-pandemic-and-what-needs-to-be-done/#206d523ddb53

Why else do you think depression amongst workers in America has more than doubled since February? It's OBVIOUSLY because of the lockdowns.

How many more links to data do you need before you will admit that the lockdowns are causing a MASSIVE increase in suicides and suicidal thoughts?
Just give me a number, please?

And this does NOT include all the increased deaths from drug overdoses PLUS all the many thousands of deaths that will occur because people who needed medical care have not been getting it.


3) And please stop posting numbers without links. I don't care what you say you read in Psychology Today. I only care what it actually said.
 The odds of dying of COVID-19 if you are otherwise healthy is over 1,500:1 AGAINST. Most people know only old farts and/or REALLY sick people are dying of COVID-19. Why would a young person be depressed about dying of something that it is virtually impossible for them to die from? That makes no sense.
 There are 14 MILLION less Americans employed over this time, last year in America (ALL due to the lockdowns).
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.a.htm
Are you seriously suggesting that the reason Americans are killing themselves in far greater numbers in 2020 is more due to a virus with a death rate barely over a serious flu (about 1/2 of 1%) that virtually only kills the old or the very sick? Rather then the 14+ million unemployed due to the lockdowns?



Look...I will make it simple for you and all the other 'lockdowners'.

Sweden's COVID-19 death's per million is 567.8 (with no lockdowns).
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
Multiply that by America's population of 330 million and you get 187,374 deaths if America did not lockdown at ALL (like Sweden).
America has already had 173,716 COVID-19 deaths and she did lockdown.

So - AT MOST - the lockdown's saved 13,342 COVID-19 deaths in America.

That means that if all the suicides and drug O/D deaths and deaths because of lack of cancer treatments/medical procedures that are because of the lockdowns TOGETHER equals more than 13,342 (and we know they are - even the CDC  admits it)?
Than we KNOW that the lockdowns have killed more people than they have saved.

And that makes them a 100% failure.

Congratulations. In one very long-winded, post, you proved my point perfectly. Here's the bottom line: the failures of the US are in the absolute numbers. You can throw all the peripheral nonsense at it you want, but NOTHING, changes almost 180,000 dead and millions infected, with no end in sight. Play your games all you want. I'll listen to science. Reputable science. If that bothers you, so be it. We can go in circles for an eternity, but it's always going to be the same. Unless and until the US adopts and implements a centralized national strategy to isolate and control this problem nationwide, the virus will remain a drag on the economy and everything else.  We can argue this more, but neither of us will change the other's mind. So I will move on.

Are you blind? Or just delusional?

I posted link after link to SCIENTIFIC proof. Documented facts. Many from the CDC.

And I doubt you even glanced at them. Because you know they prove what you are saying is dead wrong.

Lockdowns hurt countries more then COVID-19...here is a link to one of Britain's government experts on the subject and he says the same thing https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1320428/Coronavirus-news-lockdown-mistake-second-wave-Boris-Johnson

You are running away because you are obsessed about lockdowns. And you simply cannot stand to have others prove they are bad.

End of story.

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on August 26, 2020, 09:35:39 am
"Congratulations. In one very long-winded, post, you proved my point perfectly. Here's the bottom line: the failures of the US are in the absolute numbers. You can throw all the peripheral nonsense at it you want, but NOTHING, changes almost 180,000 dead and millions infected, with no end in sight. Play your games all you want. I'll listen to science. Reputable science. If that bothers you, so be it. We can go in circles for an eternity, but it's always going to be the same. Unless and until the US adopts and implements a centralized national strategy to isolate and control this problem nationwide, the virus will remain a drag on the economy and everything else.  We can argue this more, but neither of us will change the other's mind. So I will move on. "

I agree 100% until we have a plan and strategize nationally this will keep bouncing back and forth. Not only that but we are losing credibility across the globe for keeping this in play and thus created a wall around the country with a no entry allowed by other nations. The places where we do massive business. My friends in Europe is getting piss at the USA, they can try to control this all they want, but without a global effort, we will just keep passing it back and forth and possibly allow it to mutate it even more deadly.

Kwuk, the other interesting part is that my hair was shedding massively a month or two afterward, when I lost 15 pound I think my hair also suffered from lack of nutrition.

Another big government lover...apparently.

You do realize that the director of the CDC says the lockdowns are killing more people then have died of COVID-19 in America?

https://www.redstate.com/michael_thau/2020/07/27/head-of-cdc-lockdown-suicides-drug-ods-killing-way-more-americans-than-covid/

You do realize that Sweden's deaths from COVID-19 per 1,000,000 is almost the same as America's - that did lockdown?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/

Okay? Exactly what 'national strategy' do you want to see implemented?
Please enlighten us with your vast wisdom?
Or are you just regurgitating what the MSM/governments are spewing forth?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on August 26, 2020, 09:45:50 am
Need more proof lockdowners?

'New Thinking on Covid Lockdowns: They’re Overly Blunt and Costly
Blanket business shutdowns—which the U.S. never tried before this pandemic—led to a deep recession. Economists and health experts say there may be a better way.'


https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-lockdowns-economy-pandemic-recession-business-shutdown-sweden-coronavirus-11598281419
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: CyBerLee on August 26, 2020, 08:34:07 pm
awesome keep regurgitating the Qanon stuff, I'll stick to science if you don't mind! It is interesting to note that more people are believing the flat earth theory also using so-called scientific data to prove their point. Key word is peer group scientist. If a doctor believes that illness is cause by having dreams with having sex with a devil, then maybe it would be smart to find another doctor. Same with scoping out scientific studies that doesn't link to a Qanon membership site.
 
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on August 27, 2020, 08:43:12 am
awesome keep regurgitating the Qanon stuff, I'll stick to science if you don't mind! It is interesting to note that more people are believing the flat earth theory also using so-called scientific data to prove their point. Key word is peer group scientist. If a doctor believes that illness is cause by having dreams with having sex with a devil, then maybe it would be smart to find another doctor. Same with scoping out scientific studies that doesn't link to a Qanon membership site.
And I will ask you again...Exactly what 'national strategy' do you want to see implemented?
Please enlighten us with your vast wisdom?
Or are you just regurgitating what the MSM/governments are spewing forth?

And prove to us all how this link is not 'scientific'?
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1320428/Coronavirus-news-lockdown-mistake-second-wave-Boris-Johnson

IMO, you lockdowners wouldn't understand the science of COVID-19 if your lives depended on it.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: TickleTheo on August 28, 2020, 03:58:45 pm
Even here in Italy COVID-19 is mainly a political issue. And a generational one as well. Myself, got infected in march and, even without extreme consequences,  now I have to cope with one of of the most common so-called "light injuries": loss of sense of smell and taste. It lightly recovered in weeks, but I know I will never have another nice meat dish (it tastes and smells like *hit now) and another great glass of wine either (now it simply seems a glass of water with some alcohol poured in... and I was a wine connoisseur). Not to mention two or three dozens of other pleasant smells (my wife skin, every perfume, flowers, fruit, just to mention a few), which I miss greatly. They are simply not present anymore in my perceptive range. Gone. Deleted. Its a neurological damage and i can count only on the so called "neuronal plasticity". And hope for the better.
Here we had a huge lockdown, but these last weeks people seem really tired with all the safety procedures. Italians are getting bored. Young people party, go dancing, forget any mask or wear it proudly... tied on their arms. Average age of the new cases is going down, and now its approaching 30 yo. All this just because people started to feel safe and were inclined to show they were "smarter" and bolder. After all this, every time I hear or read right wing people gambling with other people's lives, I just feel outraged. A new wave it is coming, noone seems really care, a lot of people will get hurt, simple procedures can avoid 90% of it and still there is someone shouting he is better and smarter and "knows better".
Come on, grow up.   

Strange oddball question. With the lack or near lack of the sense of smell, what would durian fruit taste like for you? Durian as a fruit [The spikey ball of death] is usually avoided because of the intense number of offensive smells which, no joke smells like sweaty decomposing garbage to some?. The taste though is pretty pleasent, slightly custardy with a hint of garlic? It is kinda hard to describe.

Just wondered since most of us don't know people with a diminshed sense of smell.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: CyBerLee on August 29, 2020, 03:16:36 am
awesome keep regurgitating the Qanon stuff, I'll stick to science if you don't mind! It is interesting to note that more people are believing the flat earth theory also using so-called scientific data to prove their point. Key word is peer group scientist. If a doctor believes that illness is cause by having dreams with having sex with a devil, then maybe it would be smart to find another doctor. Same with scoping out scientific studies that doesn't link to a Qanon membership site.
And I will ask you again...Exactly what 'national strategy' do you want to see implemented?
Please enlighten us with your vast wisdom?
Or are you just regurgitating what the MSM/governments are spewing forth?

And prove to us all how this link is not 'scientific'?
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1320428/Coronavirus-news-lockdown-mistake-second-wave-Boris-Johnson

IMO, you lockdowners wouldn't understand the science of COVID-19 if your lives depended on it.
Okay I will enlighten you. Be kind to one another safety equal love, be safe so the people who love you can still have you in their life.
I would hold your hand thru these troubling time, but this will have to do.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on August 29, 2020, 11:43:30 am
awesome keep regurgitating the Qanon stuff, I'll stick to science if you don't mind! It is interesting to note that more people are believing the flat earth theory also using so-called scientific data to prove their point. Key word is peer group scientist. If a doctor believes that illness is cause by having dreams with having sex with a devil, then maybe it would be smart to find another doctor. Same with scoping out scientific studies that doesn't link to a Qanon membership site.
And I will ask you again...Exactly what 'national strategy' do you want to see implemented?
Please enlighten us with your vast wisdom?
Or are you just regurgitating what the MSM/governments are spewing forth?

And prove to us all how this link is not 'scientific'?
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/health/1320428/Coronavirus-news-lockdown-mistake-second-wave-Boris-Johnson

IMO, you lockdowners wouldn't understand the science of COVID-19 if your lives depended on it.
Okay I will enlighten you. Be kind to one another safety equal love, be safe so the people who love you can still have you in their life.
I would hold your hand thru these troubling time, but this will have to do.

Exactly as I thought...you have no answer whatsoever.
Clearly, you do not even understand what is going on.

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on August 29, 2020, 11:47:59 am
https://www.hindustantimes.com/health/all-child-covid-19-fatalities-in-the-uk-had-profound-underlying-conditions/story-fmHfp1VM4mXTuZRsjpzrRP.html

So...once again, we see what the lockdowns are all about.
So useless, old farts can be protected while the rest of society has to massively suffer.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on August 29, 2020, 07:28:59 pm
To you Lockdowners who say you only follow 'science'?

This is from the Lancet - a weekly peer-reviewed general medical journal. As scientific as it gets.

'Scientific data published in The Lancet last month shows that lockdowns and border closures do not make a difference in avoiding critical COVID-19 infections nor deaths. And when considering the cases of Sweden (no lockdown), the UK (three months’ hard lockdown), Queensland (softer lockdown) and Victoria (hard lockdown), it is clear lockdowns, hard or soft, do not appear to be very effective. What does appear effective is targeted broad testing, then effective contact tracing and containment – and learning to live with the virus.'

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/costly-coronavirus-lockdowns-doing-more-harm-than-good/news-story/30c7483a786950718e21a1997e235782

There...'scientific' proof...you staggeringly, ignorant lockdowners.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: CyBerLee on August 30, 2020, 12:09:27 am
Awesome, now we got that out of the way! We are feeble and ignorant suffering fools so you really shouldn't value other people opinion. Especially my opinion, so were done right?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on August 30, 2020, 08:05:08 am
Awesome, now we got that out of the way! We are feeble and ignorant suffering fools so you really shouldn't value other people opinion. Especially my opinion, so were done right?
You start the fight...and now you run away from it?
 Okaaaay.

We are 'done' as soon as you admit that you cannot post a link to unbiased, scientifically-proven, factual proof that COVID-19 lockdowns save more lives than they are kill (directly/indirectly)?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: CyBerLee on August 30, 2020, 09:10:33 am
This is me running away from you!
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on August 30, 2020, 10:46:50 am
This is me running away from you!

So, despite the fact you claim to be following 'science' on COVID-19? You offer zero unbiased links to 'science' on the subject of any kind PLUS you appear to reject links to some of THE most respected, scientific sources on this issue.

As I thought...little more than a troll.

A 58 year old, transgender-fixated troll who is in science-denial (yet claims to be the opposite on the latter).
Man...if that doesn't scream out 'success'...nothing does.


Have a nice day.


Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: The_Big_Guava on August 30, 2020, 06:56:33 pm
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/08/shock-report-week-cdc-quietly-updated-covid-19-numbers-9210-americans-died-covid-19-alone-rest-serious-illnesses/

I am not without empathy for the families of those 9210 Americans - and all around the World - who have died because of this illness that was released upon us intentionally.  But living is a dangerous thing - death is always around us in one way or another. Shutting down the economy and upending most socialization as we've known it, only made the World a sadder place, increasing depression, alcoholism, drug abuse and suicide.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 01, 2020, 01:33:30 pm
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/08/shock-report-week-cdc-quietly-updated-covid-19-numbers-9210-americans-died-covid-19-alone-rest-serious-illnesses/

I am not without empathy for the families of those 9210 Americans - and all around the World - who have died because of this illness that was released upon us intentionally.  But living is a dangerous thing - death is always around us in one way or another. Shutting down the economy and upending most socialization as we've known it, only made the World a sadder place, increasing depression, alcoholism, drug abuse and suicide.

Here is the source of that article:

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

'Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death.'

This proves once and for all that COVID-19 is being GALACTICALLY blown out of proportion.

Of course, the lockdown cowards will disagree.

Fucking wimps...they are fine with mass suffering around the world just so they can feel a little safer.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: CyBerLee on September 03, 2020, 09:01:46 pm
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/13/opinions/trumps-terrible-choice-for-cdc-redfield-garrett/index.html?fbclid=IwAR0bikN2KZ2Yh5_Sn7cZIETN3flmpd9PZDi8D8U4RAvMGQGT0tP_SJku8-I

lot of red flag going up!
CDC announce the vaccine will be release before Nov 1  while Fauci and Birx are out and replace by a new doctor with lack of knowledge in the field of virus outbreak. Top of that the Administration bows out of the European agency in battling this virus. If we had the vaccine, wouldn't you want to share that with the world, unless its not safe?!?!?
National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in the field of immunology are telling us to no longer rely on fact from the CDC, as being echo across the board. The recent decision by the CDC to say that testing is no longer needed has shook the world in perplexing awe.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 05, 2020, 03:00:31 am
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/13/opinions/trumps-terrible-choice-for-cdc-redfield-garrett/index.html?fbclid=IwAR0bikN2KZ2Yh5_Sn7cZIETN3flmpd9PZDi8D8U4RAvMGQGT0tP_SJku8-I

lot of red flag going up!
CDC announce the vaccine will be release before Nov 1  while Fauci and Birx are out and replace by a new doctor with lack of knowledge in the field of virus outbreak. Top of that the Administration bows out of the European agency in battling this virus. If we had the vaccine, wouldn't you want to share that with the world, unless its not safe?!?!?
National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in the field of immunology are telling us to no longer rely on fact from the CDC, as being echo across the board. The recent decision by the CDC to say that testing is no longer needed has shook the world in perplexing awe.
Wow - this is one, INCREDIBLY inaccurate post. Where do I begin with the misinformation in this piece of 'information'?

1) his link is from 2 years ago.
 But if you want to knock the head of an agency - let's go with Fauci who was caught telling erroneous information to Congress.
https://vaccineimpact.com/2019/director-of-niaid-gives-false-testimony-under-oath-to-congress-regarding-mmr-vaccine/
And has made mistake after mistake.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/anthony-fauci-lied-about-masks-now-he-complains-that-people-distrust-authority
https://gellerreport.com/2020/04/deep-state-fauci.html/

2) He types the following: 'National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in the field of immunology are telling us to no longer rely on fact from the CDC, as being echo across the board.'
 Really?
And where is a link to this?
And where is a link to proof that this sentiment is 'across the board'?

But here is the big one:

3) Then he types 'The recent decision by the CDC to say that testing is no longer needed has shook the world in perplexing awe.'
 Hello? That is NOT what the CDC said.
 Right...the CDC said 'testing is no longer needed'.
Riiiiight.

 This is what they said: 'If you have been in close contact (within 6 feet) of a person with a COVID-19 infection for at least 15 minutes but do not have symptoms:
You do not necessarily need a test unless you are a vulnerable individual or your health care provider or State or local public health officials recommend you take one.
A negative test does not mean you will not develop an infection from the close contact or contract an infection at a later time.
You should monitor yourself for symptoms. If you develop symptoms, you should evaluate yourself under the considerations set forth above.
You should strictly adhere to CDC mitigation protocols, especially if you are interacting with a vulnerable individual. You should adhere to CDC guidelines to protect vulnerable individuals with whom you live.'

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/testing-overview.html

Since you and the press obviously cannot figure out what that actually means...I will try and put it in simple terms for you all.

It says that if you come in contact with a COVID patient for 15 minutes but have no symptoms...you don't necessarily need a test if you are not an old fart and/or have no comorbidities (i.e. if you are not vulnerable to croak from COVID-19).
 Why? Because the present odds of someone who is not in a vulnerable group dying of COVID-19 is about 1,500:1 AGAINST. Why the heck with those odds would you need to get tested? Duh.

 Also, it says that - if you are the above person - you should STAY AWAY from anyone in the vulnerable group (whom should not even be going in public with others anyway - unless they have a death wish).
Plus, they remind people that even if you test negative for COVID-19...that does NOT mean you do not have it because the test is SO unreliable.

So what the CDC is saying makes TOTAL and COMPLETE sense. And takes NO unreasonable chances with COVID-19 patients
 But no...the MSM/people like you and other lockdowners just have to twist and misrepresent everything people say that does not fit your/their panic narrative.

Damn most of the public/MSM are staggeringly inept/lazy on this stuff.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 05, 2020, 03:34:55 am
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities
https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html
Go to Figure 4 and 'deceased'.

So now we know - as I/others have been saying for months - that roughly 99% of all those who die of COVID-19 are useless, old farts and/or people who are very sick/weak.

So instead of just isolating those people who are vulnerable? Thus barely affecting the economy and saving taxpayers trillions of dollars. Not to mention all the hundreds of thousands of people around the world who will die because of the lockdowns (lack of medical treatments, suicide/ drug over dose, etc.). Instead of doing that?

The MSM, corrupt politicians and stupid/ignorant and/or cowardly lockdowners insist on destroying the economies of the world and spending trillions the world does not have...just to protect a bunch of sick people...but mostly - to protect TOTALLY, USELESS OLD FARTS.
 I don't blame younger, sick people. Everyone has a right to a full life (like to 60+).
But I do blame cowardly, old farts (60+). They are asking the world to suffer MASSIVELY just so they can have a slightly better chance to live a few extra years...even though they have already lived full lives.

What a bunch of selfish losers.

This just confirms what I already knew....most old people are completely useless. And now - they are causing the world to suffer to help save their mostly, useless lives.
If they were truly decent people - they would insist the world NOT lockdown to help them live a few more years.
That's what I would do were I an old fart.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: CyBerLee on September 05, 2020, 06:19:55 am
Bwahaha , people over 60 are useless! Wow, yeah I have no use for your information. The link i posted is 2 years old, and Trump been president for just over 3 years. Do the math!
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 00haf on September 05, 2020, 01:31:19 pm
this discussion really matters
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 05, 2020, 02:48:26 pm
Bwahaha , people over 60 are useless! Wow, yeah I have no use for your information. The link i posted is 2 years old, and Trump been president for just over 3 years. Do the math!
The math is that your link has nothing to do with today.
That Fauci lied to Congress and has been staggeringly wrong over and over.
That you make ridiculous statements that you NEVER back up - that CDC point about testing was a home run on the ignorant chart.
That you cannot (apparently) face the truth that the COVID-19 lockdowns are doing FAR more harm than good.

 You seem like little more than a ignorant, lockdowner. Who cares more about useless, old farts (which you will be very soon - coincidence?) having a slightly better chance to live - than you do about the fact that lockdowns have destroyed the economy, are bankrupting nations and causing hundreds of thousands of collateral deaths.
 
 I think that says all we need to know about you.

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: CyBerLee on September 05, 2020, 04:01:19 pm
Thank God! I'm glad that's over, so now we can back to real science! Trump never did a national lockdown is why we are where we are. Had he done so, we would have been back to a robust economy. That is why the virus keep bouncing back and forth across the nation. Right now the biggest upsurge is in the Red part of the country.

I'm so glad we wont be hearing anymore from you, and thanking you for ending your repeated rant. and hopefully no more angry personal messages.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 05, 2020, 06:56:00 pm
Thank God! I'm glad that's over, so now we can back to real science! Trump never did a national lockdown is why we are where we are. Had he done so, we would have been back to a robust economy. That is why the virus keep bouncing back and forth across the nation. Right now the biggest upsurge is in the Red part of the country.

I'm so glad we wont be hearing anymore from you, and thanking you for ending your repeated rant. and hopefully no more angry personal messages.
Ummm...usually when someone wants to be left alone because someone else scares/intimidates them (judging by the fact you ran to the mods and begged them to get me to weave you awone)?
They don't keep starting conversations with them.

You stop addressing me and/or stop making ridiculous posts about this subject? And I will have no reason to 'address' you.
Until then - I will if I feel like it until the mods force me to stop.


Now back to you point that no national lockdown was the problem?
Even though you have ZERO factual/scientific evidence to back that up.
And I have posted link after link to (largely) well-respected sources that prove the opposite.

The fact that Sweden did not lockdown at all and they have a lower death rate than Italy, Spain, France and the UK (all of which did lockdown)? Proves conclusively that a lockdown does little but ruin the economy, cause massive collateral damage and send national debts souring.

Plus the Lancet AND the head of Norway's AND G.B's medical government services (all of whom I have linked to above) have all stated that lockdowns don't help. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

And what do you have for 'scientific evidence'?
Nothing.


Yup...I am guessing you and success are not on speaking terms.

Have a nice day.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: CyBerLee on September 06, 2020, 05:23:42 am
Just know that whatever you say is totally irrelevant to me. If you don't value old people, then I certainly not going to value you nor your personal message to insult me. It's just creepy that you are singling me out to someone who slightly notice your long winded whining. Get over yourself!
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 06, 2020, 03:46:48 pm
Just know that whatever you say is totally irrelevant to me. If you don't value old people, then I certainly not going to value you nor your personal message to insult me. It's just creepy that you are singling me out to someone who slightly notice your long winded whining. Get over yourself!

Oh please just grow up.

1) it is impossible for my posts to be 'totally irrelevant to' you if you are reading/commenting about them. So that point means nothing.

And 2) if my posts are upsetting you SO much - just don't read them. Duh.

But as long as you keep making unproven and erroneous claims on COVID-19 - I (might) keep pointing out how wrong you are.

Have a nice day.


And since one of us should actually talk about the subject of this thread:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/people-across-the-globe-protest-covid-19-lockdowns

This is good to see.

People are finally starting to say: 'enough'.


And:

The deadly truth about lockdowns and masking policies
There's little to gain and much to lose from the misguided actions of political leaders.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/the-deadly-truth-about-lockdowns-and-masking-policies

The lockdown has gone from a mistake to a crime
https://www.wnd.com/2020/08/lockdown-gone-mistake-crime/?utm_source=Email&utm_medium=wnd-brief&utm_campaign=dailypm&utm_content=brief&ats_es=78b1097cd0963bc468928dea9bf783fc
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: pc84 on September 06, 2020, 06:15:11 pm
4 out of the last 5 days the U.S. has had over 1,000 deaths each day, and this isn't stopping. I feel like I've made this similar post several times over the last few months.

Meanwhile, the deaths in other countries yesterday:
Japan - 19
U.K. - 12
Canada - 2
South Korea - 2

Still waiting for a response on why the US is averaging over 1,000 deaths each day and almost every other affluent country similar to the US doesn't have this problem...
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: CyBerLee on September 06, 2020, 10:35:43 pm
4 out of the last 5 days the U.S. has had over 1,000 deaths each day, and this isn't stopping. I feel like I've made this similar post several times over the last few months.

Meanwhile, the deaths in other countries yesterday:
Japan - 19
U.K. - 12
Canada - 2
South Korea - 2

Still waiting for a response on why the US is averaging over 1,000 deaths each day and almost every other affluent country similar to the US doesn't have this problem...

Polls on the subject of who they most trust to get us out of this believes in CDC but not the president. The feeling is that we may have to wait for this to actually have leadership to follow thru the medical expert advice while also facing economic hardship for not following it in the first place.
link is here for the disable thinker>>>>>>
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-trust-the-cdc-on-covid-19-trump-not-so-much/              <<<<<Link is here for those that have difficulty looking up link

can a divided population effort be able to combat this, while ignoring scientific fact in order to save face with a liar in chief?
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 06, 2020, 11:33:07 pm
4 out of the last 5 days the U.S. has had over 1,000 deaths each day, and this isn't stopping. I feel like I've made this similar post several times over the last few months.

Meanwhile, the deaths in other countries yesterday:
Japan - 19
U.K. - 12
Canada - 2
South Korea - 2

Still waiting for a response on why the US is averaging over 1,000 deaths each day and almost every other affluent country similar to the US doesn't have this problem...

Jeez - moving the goal posts all over the place or what?
Comparing number of deaths with countries with vastly different population sizes is nonsense. Plus, the virus arrived in Europe months before America.
What you compare is deaths per 1,000,000 population.
And on that score - America is still below the UK.

But more importantly - America (which has locked down) now has a higher COVID-19 deaths per 1,000,000 than Sweden - which did NOT lockdown.
 Which again proves lockdowns do not work.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/

But why are more people dying in America? No idea.
And since almost all of those dying are useless, old farts - I don't much care either.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities


Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 06, 2020, 11:44:10 pm
4 out of the last 5 days the U.S. has had over 1,000 deaths each day, and this isn't stopping. I feel like I've made this similar post several times over the last few months.

Meanwhile, the deaths in other countries yesterday:
Japan - 19
U.K. - 12
Canada - 2
South Korea - 2

Still waiting for a response on why the US is averaging over 1,000 deaths each day and almost every other affluent country similar to the US doesn't have this problem...

Polls on the subject of who they most trust to get us out of this believes in CDC but not the president. The feeling is that we may have to wait for this to actually have leadership to follow thru the medical expert advice while also facing economic hardship for not following it in the first place.
link is here for the disable thinker>>>>>>
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/americans-trust-the-cdc-on-covid-19-trump-not-so-much/              <<<<<Link is here for those that have difficulty looking up link

can a divided population effort be able to combat this, while ignoring scientific fact in order to save face with a liar in chief?

Scientific fact?
This from a guy who hasn't posted one post (that I recall) proving even ONE thing he has said about COVID-19.

But I will show you scientific fact.

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html#a4
Table 4 - change parameter to 'deceased'
In Canada, 96.8% of documented cases that died of COVID-19 were over 60. And 89.6% were over 70.

More proof that the virus kills almost no one but the old. Just like the flu.
Except, the flu also kills the very young..unlike COVID-19.
So, COVID-19 spares the young and healthy and kills the weak and old.
I don't see what the problem is.
Though I would like to see those under 60 have a full life. All those over 60-65 (especially 75) are COMPLETELY useless and nothing but wastes of flesh. They do little, take up trillions in medical costs just to stay alive and useless and all they usually vote for is stuff they want. They don't care about global warming because they will be dead long before it gets bad.
The faster they die out the more resources that can be spent on the rest of us.
 So I say - bring on COVID-19.
Thin out the herd - get rid of those useless, old farts.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: squatty2 on September 06, 2020, 11:55:02 pm
Why anyone even reads your posts is beyond me, when you stated that we'd never see anything near 100K dead...
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: squatty2 on September 06, 2020, 11:57:48 pm
4 out of the last 5 days the U.S. has had over 1,000 deaths each day, and this isn't stopping. I feel like I've made this similar post several times over the last few months.

Meanwhile, the deaths in other countries yesterday:
Japan - 19
U.K. - 12
Canada - 2
South Korea - 2

Still waiting for a response on why the US is averaging over 1,000 deaths each day and almost every other affluent country similar to the US doesn't have this problem...

Jeez - moving the goal posts all over the place or what?
Comparing number of deaths with countries with vastly different population sizes is nonsense. Plus, the virus arrived in Europe months before America.
What you compare is deaths per 1,000,000 population.
And on that score - America is still below the UK.

But more importantly - America (which has locked down) now has a higher COVID-19 deaths per 1,000,000 than Sweden - which did NOT lockdown.
 Which again proves lockdowns do not work.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/

But why are more people dying in America? No idea.
And since almost all of those dying are useless, old farts - I don't much care either.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

America didn't actually lock down...not uniformly...some people still had parties (super spreader events) and in some states and towns they still went about their business as if nothing were going on...
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: KwukDuck on September 07, 2020, 12:32:34 am
Lol @ lifesitenews
No wonder you're so out of touch with reality.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 07, 2020, 01:14:22 am
Lol @ lifesitenews
No wonder you're so out of touch with reality.
Typical KwukTroll reply.

I agree - the site is rather extreme.
But the op-ed makes a LOT of great points from well established, respected sources.
But I don't see you posting anything to disprove what was said.
So then in this thread - as usual - your post means squat.
Just more cowardly trolling.

So, not only are you nothing but a troll in this thread, and a coward...but your claim to fame is modding a site full of mostly sickos, freaks, pirates and trolls.

What a loser. ::)

Have a nice day.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 07, 2020, 01:20:12 am
4 out of the last 5 days the U.S. has had over 1,000 deaths each day, and this isn't stopping. I feel like I've made this similar post several times over the last few months.

Meanwhile, the deaths in other countries yesterday:
Japan - 19
U.K. - 12
Canada - 2
South Korea - 2

Still waiting for a response on why the US is averaging over 1,000 deaths each day and almost every other affluent country similar to the US doesn't have this problem...

Jeez - moving the goal posts all over the place or what?
Comparing number of deaths with countries with vastly different population sizes is nonsense. Plus, the virus arrived in Europe months before America.
What you compare is deaths per 1,000,000 population.
And on that score - America is still below the UK.

But more importantly - America (which has locked down) now has a higher COVID-19 deaths per 1,000,000 than Sweden - which did NOT lockdown.
 Which again proves lockdowns do not work.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/

But why are more people dying in America? No idea.
And since almost all of those dying are useless, old farts - I don't much care either.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#Comorbidities

America didn't actually lock down...not uniformly...some people still had parties (super spreader events) and in some states and towns they still went about their business as if nothing were going on...

But the people that partied were not in the danger categories. Healthy people under 40 do NOT die of COVID-19 (with very, few exceptions).

Obviously, what is happening is the young people (who almost never die of it) that get COVID-19 are mingling with the old farts..and the latter catch it and croak.

If America wants to end the dying - just ask the old farts to stay home and assign fully screened people to look after them.
Since they are (practically) the only ones dying?
If they are shut off from society - the dying would cease.

They don't need to lockdown the whole country...just the old farts.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 07, 2020, 01:49:54 am
Why anyone even reads your posts is beyond me, when you stated that we'd never see anything near 100K dead...
Hey, squinty?
Fauci was proven dead wrong before Congress.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeHuPUw8r-s
That was a far bigger mistake. Especially if no one was there to correct him.
Does that mean you will never believe anything he said?
Of course not...duh.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/04/faucis-many-mistakes-lies-nih-director-said-one-thing-weeks-months-ago-today-tries-blame-president-trump-video/
Only an idiot would NEVER believe something someone says again because they made a mistake.
Your point is nonsense.

However, I just read that statement I made back when and man...that was a STUPID thing for me to say.
You should never make guarantees about new phenomena...and I did exactly that.
At worst - I should have said 'I believe', not 'no way'.
Dumb.

But that changes nothing about the statistics I post from respected sources.
And the fact that Sweden has proven that lockdowns are NOT the answer.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Ermagherd on September 07, 2020, 03:09:49 pm
How would you “lock down the old farts with ‘screened caretakers’”? Surely these caretakers can’t afford to catch the virus and kill off the older folks. How would the caretakers interact with a society in which nobody cares about the virus, but you expect them to just not catch it and bring it home?

Does the caretaker live in with who they’re caring for? If we consider caretaker and elderly to be one unit living together, who makes sure they’re stocked well enough to straight up not leave their house? Is THAT person a “screened” caretaker too?

Please explain.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 07, 2020, 06:09:27 pm
How would you “lock down the old farts with ‘screened caretakers’”? Surely these caretakers can’t afford to catch the virus and kill off the older folks. How would the caretakers interact with a society in which nobody cares about the virus, but you expect them to just not catch it and bring it home?

Does the caretaker live in with who they’re caring for? If we consider caretaker and elderly to be one unit living together, who makes sure they’re stocked well enough to straight up not leave their house? Is THAT person a “screened” caretaker too?

Please explain.
Fair question.

Two ways.

1) you take all the old farts who agree to be locked down and who cannot afford to hire help to somewhere BIG...like a military base (there are TONS of them in America). You set up facilities for them in hangars, empty barracks, wherever. You then ask for paid volunteers to look after these people. They will be assigned to these bases for two or three months at a time.
 They will have to be screened and locked down for whatever the incubation period is now (it seems to change every month). And after 2/3 months? They leave and a new group takes over under the same conditions.

2) in addition to above, old farts in old fart homes stay where they are, but the only people allowed to look after them have to be fully screened - and they stay with them for weeks/months in a row. Then the next shift takes over.

The former will be for poor people. The latter for better off people.

The bottom line is all you have to do is isolate old farts/weak people and makes sure no one who looks after them is not fully screened...so they will have to volunteer to stay with them for long periods of time.

Then, since almost everyone who dies of COVID-19 is either old or weak...you can then let the rest of the country to go back to work - saving trillions of dollars, ending the depression and allowing the population to reach herd immunity and thus ends the threat and the old farts can come back out.

But locking down an entire country - when only a tiny fraction of it are at risk - is insane.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: squatty2 on September 07, 2020, 06:55:51 pm

But the people that partied were not in the danger categories. Healthy people under 40 do NOT die of COVID-19 (with very, few exceptions).

Obviously, what is happening is the young people (who almost never die of it) that get COVID-19 are mingling with the old farts..and the latter catch it and croak.

If America wants to end the dying - just ask the old farts to stay home and assign fully screened people to look after them.
Since they are (practically) the only ones dying?
If they are shut off from society - the dying would cease.

They don't need to lockdown the whole country...just the old farts.

Yes, they did...there were old folks who didn't lock down and ignored it, there were young people, there were OBESE people who ignored it.  Obesity being another comorbidity that affects the majority of the country...

I know a 46 year old who died...I know a 50 year old who almost died...

If you lock down everyone over the age of 40...that's the majority of the employees and business in this country....LOL

I wish there had been a total lockdown of everyone over 40...that would have been a lot more effective and impactful than what we did...
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: CyBerLee on September 08, 2020, 05:17:54 pm
I have never seen anyone stick fingers in their eyes refusing to look at links like it doesn't exist, even had arrows pointing to the links. But anyone who advocate killing of old people to thin the herd is copying Hitler's talking point about purifying the nations with strong people. Top of that trying to ridicule me for caring about the LGBTQ community. Not worth listening at this point.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 08, 2020, 09:54:05 pm

But the people that partied were not in the danger categories. Healthy people under 40 do NOT die of COVID-19 (with very, few exceptions).

Obviously, what is happening is the young people (who almost never die of it) that get COVID-19 are mingling with the old farts..and the latter catch it and croak.

If America wants to end the dying - just ask the old farts to stay home and assign fully screened people to look after them.
Since they are (practically) the only ones dying?
If they are shut off from society - the dying would cease.

They don't need to lockdown the whole country...just the old farts.

Yes, they did...there were old folks who didn't lock down and ignored it, there were young people, there were OBESE people who ignored it.  Obesity being another comorbidity that affects the majority of the country...

I know a 46 year old who died...I know a 50 year old who almost died...

If you lock down everyone over the age of 40...that's the majority of the employees and business in this country....LOL

I wish there had been a total lockdown of everyone over 40...that would have been a lot more effective and impactful than what we did...

I don't begin to care whom you said you know died of it - online, that means NOTHING.

You have not a fucking clue what you are talking about. The link to the CDC says the average person had 2.6 comorbidities...so being fat would not even be half.

Look at ALL of Canada: https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-summary-covid-19-cases.html
 Figure 4 under 'deceased'.

96.8% of ALL documented case deaths were over 60.
And almost all of those who died under 60 had serious health issues.
You don't fucking shut down an entire economy when 96.8% of those who are dying are over 60.
How fucking stupid can you be?



And stop wasting my fucking time with your theories.
Either post a link to back it up or please shut the hell up.


Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 08, 2020, 10:04:34 pm
I have never seen anyone stick fingers in their eyes refusing to look at links like it doesn't exist, even had arrows pointing to the links. But anyone who advocate killing of old people to thin the herd is copying Hitler's talking point about purifying the nations with strong people. Top of that trying to ridicule me for caring about the LGBTQ community. Not worth listening at this point.

This from the coward who posts all of two links that I can find.
1) a CNN opinion piece from 2018.
2) the other is a link to a survey.

So what fucking links am I ignoring, dumbass?

Plus - this dufus keeps asking me to leave him alone (like a coward)...yet he keeps addressing me.
Make up your mind you old fop.


Yet I have posted - on average - at LEAST one link per post I have made and most of them are directly from government/medical sources...that you obviously ignore.

So what the fuck are spewing forth you old hick?

Shit...what is the IQ of lockdowners? 70?

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 09, 2020, 03:50:56 am
This a video from Canada's national network - the CBC.
Talking about closing places in B.C. (a province).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YRj5dSxtoA

Check out the comments and the thumbs up/thumbs down ratio?
Almost all comments are negative and the ratio is 89/217.

Canadians are not stupid like the bunch of lockdowners in here/around the world.

They are FED UP with the lockdowns.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 09, 2020, 03:57:54 am
Doctors, Scientists Petition Against Lockdowns

'Some 90 signatories, including Nobel Prize in Chemistry winner Michael Levitt and senior hospital officials, cited evidence that the lockdowns are ineffective in containing the coronavirus, which is not as dangerous as claimed, and that it does not warrant the damage caused to the economy.'
https://hamodia.com/2020/09/07/doctors-scientists-petition-lockdowns/


You moronic lockdowners will ignore this and go with your own uneducated, cowardly theories that lockdowns are good.
 Even though more and more doctors and people in general are seeing how overblown lockdowns are.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 09, 2020, 04:17:13 am
Lockdowners are cowards.

They don't care about all the people committing suicide or dying from drug overdoses because of the lockdowns.
They don't care about all the people who will die because they cannot have important operations or cancer treatments.
They don't care about all the children in poor countries who are getting far less aid and are starving to death.
They don't care about all the gigantic, financial damage done to the planet.
They don't care about all the people that will lose their businesses and homes once this is over.
They don't care about all the younger people who are being denied education - even though they are almost immune to dying of COVID-19.

All these cowardly, stupid, selfish lockdowners care about is saving themselves - because most of them are old farts (or close to it).
 They don't give a shit how many millions of people have to die and suffer just so they can feel a little safer...even though it has been proven time and again that lockdowns kill FAR more than they save (except lockdowns of useless, old farts).

When all this is over...and eventually history will show how lockdowns were disastrous?
I hope you lockdowners have the guts to stand up and take responsibility for all the carnage you stupid, selfish, cowardly pricks have caused.
 But you won't - will you?
You will pretend that you were against them? Or that you were just 'doing what you were told'.

You people are the worst kind of non-imprisoned, human scum.
You are selfish, arrogant, stupid and 100% cowards.
You people completely disgust me.

And, BTW, I am an investor/published author. I work from my home. The lockdowns have not negatively affected me directly...at all.
But I am still against them because - unlike you fucking losers - I am not a coward.
I care more about the world then saving my (in your cases) useless hides.
I care more about young people than a bunch of useless, old farts who should be calling for the world not to hurt themselves with lockdowns just to save their useless lives.
 But no - I have heard barely any old, geyser pricks say that. They either shut up or whine for more help, more money, more lockdowns...like you losers.
Useless pricks.

I am quite sure I will be banned soon...but I have one more question for you disgusting, lockdowner maggots?

How many innocent people have to die BECAUSE of the lockdowns (and NOT from COVID-19) before you fucking lowlifes agree that the cost of lockdowns is too great?
 Just give us a number?
100,000?
1 million?
10 million?
Well, maggots..how many?

Have a nice day, losers.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: KwukDuck on September 09, 2020, 04:28:02 am
Epic monologue!



Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: TickleTheo on September 09, 2020, 05:17:08 am
Anyone else find the irony of his speal when he spouts clearly that Covid-19 hasn't affected him at all in the slightest Economically/Financially/Socially, but he constantly comes back to this thead to badmouth anyone that Covid has actually has been effected by?


Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: dweeBdeterMined on September 09, 2020, 05:36:02 am
I will vote for 1.3725894 million. The extra digit is for the 1 underage, non-old fart that dies. Figure that person doesn't deserve a whole number since he/she died from an old fart disease when they should have not been so stupid.

Question for the mods. Can we please please please get huge roflmao emojis for these rants?

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 09, 2020, 06:56:55 am
Anyone else find the irony of his speal when he spouts clearly that Covid-19 hasn't affected him at all in the slightest Economically/Financially/Socially, but he constantly comes back to this thead to badmouth anyone that Covid has actually has been effected by?




Hey dumbass!
Since you are too stupid to figure it out I will explain it to you.

The fact that I am fighting against lockdowns despite the fact that they have not affected me personally shows that I am not attacking the lockdowns out of personal anger or gain...but because of personal beliefs.

DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.


AND what fucking difference does it make that someone says they were affected by COVID-19 in terms of whether lockdowns are helping?
 None.
And only a Boomer would actually be dumb enough to believe anything ANYONE says online about themselves.


Thanks for proving yet again how stupid you lockdowners are.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 09, 2020, 07:02:13 am
Epic monologue!




Thanks...I liked it. It's fun to tell of human maggots - like you.

Also, about KockDuck - the epic loser and coward who has not got the guts to get back to my pm's.

And the guy who judges the success of people by the length of their dicks. But, of course, with most people on this site about as stupid and as sexually fucked up as they are...they probably are the same way.

So CowardDuck?
So you don't judge people's success by their net worth, how good of a parent they are, how much they donate their money/time to charity or anything normal, mentally stable people judge one's life by.
With you...it's the size of your dick.

Okay guys. Mine is slightly above average.

'According to one study published in the British Journal of Urology International (BJUI), the average length of a flaccid penis is 3.61 inches, while the average length of an erect penis is 5.16 inches.'
https://www.healthline.com/health/mens-health/average-penis-size

But to all you people with dicks under 5.1 inches?
According to KwackDuck - you are a loser.

Well, there is always surgery.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 09, 2020, 07:06:11 am
I will vote for 1.3725894 million. The extra digit is for the 1 underage, non-old fart that dies. Figure that person doesn't deserve a whole number since he/she died from an old fart disease when they should have not been so stupid.

Question for the mods. Can we please please please get huge roflmao emojis for these rants?

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

So, roughly 50% more people than have died of COVID-19!

So noted.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 09, 2020, 07:08:57 am
I gotta tell you...I have never had this much fun on this demented site as I have had on it in this thread.

I can post whatever I want.

You losers are actually reading it.

I assume most of you are old farts...so I can tell off a bunch of pathetic, piece of shit, cowardly, old farts to their (internet) faces.

And I can even tell the 'Administrator' to fuck off.

This despite the fact I already was given the boot from this site a few years ago.

Sick.

🎇🎆✨🎆🎇
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: dweeBdeterMined on September 09, 2020, 07:24:06 am
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: 888 on September 09, 2020, 08:03:08 am
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As people who are new to this thread will notice...these lockdowner's NEVER reply with any links to facts to dispel the facts I post. They are just blather like this loser has posted above.
 LOL...I mean look at the extent of this guy's intellect?

KwukDuck initially tried to sort of dispel facts I posted. But I fairly quickly made mince meat of his 'ICU-obsessed posts' and that was it for him. Now he just resorts to trolling.

Here are some more links I will post.
And watch, these lockdown losers will probably offer zero link-backed, unbiased, factual proof to disprove them.
Either - I assume - because they cannot bare the truth and/or they are too stupid to understand it and/or they are too intimidated by all the theories/data.
 I am guessing a combination of all three.

Covid-19: Pandemic Causing Deadly Delays in Cancer Diagnosis
https://www.physiciansweekly.com/covid-19-pandemic-causing-deadly-delays-in-cancer-diagnosis/

Unnecessary Lockdowns Created Social Turmoil, Global Suffering
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/06/11/unnecessary_lockdowns_created_social_turmoil_global_suffering_143419.html

New thinking on COVID lockdowns: They’re overly blunt and costly
The equivalent of 400 million jobs have been lost world-wide, 13 million in the U.S. alone
https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/new-thinking-on-covid-lockdowns-theyre-overly-blunt-and-costly

Doctors Worldwide Are Recording More Deaths Due to Lockdowns Than to COVID-19
https://townhall.com/columnists/bradslager/2020/08/20/doctors-worldwide-are-recording-more-deaths-due-to-lockdowns-than-to-covid19-n2574754

COVID-19 Lockdowns in Africa Have Been Deadlier than the Disease
Lockdowns have resulted in horrific police brutality and further impoverished millions of the world’s poorest people.
https://fee.org/articles/covid-19-lockdowns-in-africa-have-been-deadlier-than-the-disease/


Look at all the above data and facts. Point after point that adds proof that the lockdowns are far more destructive then they are helpful. And they are the tip of the iceberg.

And watch, these knucklehead lockdowners will just try and shoot the messenger - me (which is fair since I am calling them more-or-less scum) - but COMPLETELY ignore the data/facts I post.
They simply cannot fathom that lockdowns are not great because they are so stupid/gullible that they believe whatever their governments/bureaucrats (like that media escort Fauci) tell them.

Lockdowners are the biggest cowards the world has seen in some time, IMO.

Those that are not stupid are - like KwukDuck - clearly, mentally disturbed.

Hope this helps you people whom are new to the thread and NOT lockdowners.
Look carefully - there are a few others (besides me) on here that get the truth.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: dweeBdeterMined on September 10, 2020, 12:33:19 am
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: dweeBdeterMined on September 10, 2020, 12:42:37 am

 (http://www.imagebam.com/image/01871a1353697090)
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: pc84 on September 11, 2020, 12:06:14 am
Oh look, no sign of slowing down in the U.S.!!

Deaths yesterday in:
Spain - 34
Italy - 14
Japan - 16
Canada - 2
UK - 8
Germany - 1

Total combined population of these six countries, approx. 420 million.

Deaths yesterday in the U.S. - 1,200

U.S. population approx. 328 million

92 million more people in those nations but yet they combine for about 1,125 less deaths than the U.S.

So many of these countries above got hit right around the same time we did and flattened the curve and maintained stability back in April, May, and June. And here we are in the US in September with 1,000 people STILL dying each day.

But yeah, Trump did a great job...
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: poot222 on September 11, 2020, 07:40:23 am
Oh look, no sign of slowing down in the U.S.!!

Deaths yesterday in:
Spain - 34
Italy - 14
Japan - 16
Canada - 2
UK - 8
Germany - 1

Total combined population of these six countries, approx. 420 million.

Deaths yesterday in the U.S. - 1,200

U.S. population approx. 328 million

92 million more people in those nations but yet they combine for about 1,125 less deaths than the U.S.

So many of these countries above got hit right around the same time we did and flattened the curve and maintained stability back in April, May, and June. And here we are in the US in September with 1,000 people STILL dying each day.

But yeah, Trump did a great job...

Can you compare with the same population distribution with similar demographics? Those are poor matches. Germany and Japan, in particular. Americans lack the capacity to be as regimented as either one of those cultures.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on September 12, 2020, 03:10:29 am
Oh look, no sign of slowing down in the U.S.!!

Deaths yesterday in:
Spain - 34
Italy - 14
Japan - 16
Canada - 2
UK - 8
Germany - 1

Total combined population of these six countries, approx. 420 million.

Deaths yesterday in the U.S. - 1,200

U.S. population approx. 328 million

92 million more people in those nations but yet they combine for about 1,125 less deaths than the U.S.

So many of these countries above got hit right around the same time we did and flattened the curve and maintained stability back in April, May, and June. And here we are in the US in September with 1,000 people STILL dying each day.

But yeah, Trump did a great job...

Can you compare with the same population distribution with similar demographics? Those are poor matches. Germany and Japan, in particular. Americans lack the capacity to be as regimented as either one of those cultures.

I'm sorry. You can't break a viral infection into demographics. Dividing it up into rationalizing statistics is a cynical game inept politicians play to justify their ineptitude. Ok, Americans aren't as regimented as other countries. So what? The fact remains MASKS WORK. Moreover, it's amazing in a nation that claims to be a Christian nation, simply acting in a Christian manner is too much for some Americans. The primary purpose of wearing a mask is to protect others.What's more Christian than thinking of the health of others before your petty convenience?  Again, you don't wear a mask to protect you from others, you wear it to protect them from YOU.  Masks don't stop the virus, but they do greatly mitigate the water droplets that carry the virus, and by doing that, you greatly mitigate your chance of transmitting. In other words. it's isn't about preventing contraction, it's about preventing transmission.

The other countries listed are doing well because they took action early, and they did what needed to be done. They didn't have 'leaders' who had to turn everything in the universe into a political pissing match. They listened to science, people, for the most part, cooperated, and they're slowly coming back.

Again, when other countries have tens of deaths and you have thousands, breaking it down to demographics, and claiming your infection to fatality ratio is different is a fool's errand. We're taking about lives here. Almost 200,000 now and counting. That's all that matters.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: poot222 on September 13, 2020, 06:27:48 am
You can't break a viral infection into demographics.
... and you sincerely believe that.
I think I lowered my IQ by foolishly posting in this thread.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: CyBerLee on September 13, 2020, 06:45:24 am
https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2020/09/11/exclusive-trump-officials-interfered-with-cdc-reports-on-covid-19-412809?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR0Wiypfy3Ak4caNMlZcg3DCbq_Ru568auw9uVS3n8DRjWURTFajDTUKqao

So much for believing everything from the CDC, and we were warn 2 years ago on this!
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: tybalt50 on September 13, 2020, 11:52:17 pm
You can't break a viral infection into demographics.
... and you sincerely believe that.
I think I lowered my IQ by foolishly posting in this thread.

What is it about discussing issues online that makes it impossible to make a point without insulting someone?

Allow me to clarify, OK?

Yes, you can break it into demographics or just about any category you wish, but the bottom line is ALWAYS the same. Other Western nations' deaths from COVID are greatly reduced, while US deaths stay the same or rise. Break that into as many categories as you want, it doesn't change anything.  The US, which was once the vanguard of science and technology, is now an international laughingstock or object of pity. Break the numbers up however you wish, you're not going to change that.

Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: Akronaute on September 19, 2020, 05:47:17 pm
I'm impressed with 888. It has to be really hard to stay always in character.
Title: Re: 888's furious ranting room
Post by: dweeBdeterMined on September 19, 2020, 06:50:13 pm
Disappointed he went through all those rants repeating sources over and over and over and over and then the thread gets switched over to his name and disappears. So much is still so screwed up and there isn't anything here to make me laugh about it anymore.