Author Topic: 888's furious ranting room  (Read 65648 times)

Indy

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1291
  • -Receive: 11322
  • Posts: 4486
Re: 888's furious ranting room
« Reply #105 on: May 18, 2020, 04:43:57 pm »
About the whole amendment discussion:

I want something good to die for, to make it beautiful to live.

Indy

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1291
  • -Receive: 11322
  • Posts: 4486
Re: 888's furious ranting room
« Reply #106 on: May 18, 2020, 05:02:15 pm »
Anyway, I guess I need to step in here as this discussion is getting quite heated.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, people are very likely to have different opinions that others do not agree with. That is fine, regardless of how wrong you feel the other is.
This forum tries to keep discussions as open as possible, but freedom of speech has its limits depending on where you are. Same for our forum, we have our rules, stick to it.

You are free to have an argument, but do not stupor to insults. That's just lashing out because you can't come up with a better argument.
I will not remove the insults thrown before, as it just shows their lack of skill to have an argument. I did however return text sizes to normal since I don't want to risk eye-cancer in reading that.

So, keep it civilized.
I want something good to die for, to make it beautiful to live.

TickleTheo

  • Explicit-Users
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 230
  • -Receive: 507
  • Posts: 332
Re: 888's furious ranting room
« Reply #107 on: May 18, 2020, 08:00:17 pm »
Man, this thread devolved pretty quick.

I might as well throw my thoughts and experience in the last few months of sheltering in place.

4 weeks ago, I had relatives on social media "sharing" videos of how empty the hospital ER's was in Cali. Those same videos showed how freaking empty all the main streets were and how it looked like how mostly everyone was adhering to the shelter in place orders.

What did this show? Shelter in place slowed the spread significantly in Cali and some people saw this was a sign that the virus wasn't as deadly as proclaimed even though NY was having bodies piled into freaking refrigerator trucks.

Some people kept making the point that this virus only kills as much as the common flu. This is wrong. This virus is more deadly than the common flu, and it is a virus ONTOP of the common flu which we have seasonly. Look at it this way, Covid-19 is on track to kill at least 200k American's by the end of 2020. The 62k common flu death number that is flung around is based on the worst flu season ever. We are 4 months into Covid-19 and we've got 90+k dead, and that is with sheltering in place to slow it's spread.

So do we keep sheltering in place? Well. It isn't practical to shelter in place till a vaccine is developed, but the Federal government sure isn't helping in containing the virus. In fact, it has actively promoted spreading it and pushing misinformation. We need testing and contact tracing to get some measure of control on the outbreaks if we ever want some normality to return. It seems unless you're insanely well connected or extremely wealthy, regular testing just isn't' something most of us can expect anytime soon sadly.

Why is there such a disparity and division that is so partisan with Covid-19? I don't think most regular people have had this much misinformation thrown at them for so long and frankly, I think it has been wearing their sense of what a functioning Federal Government is supposed to look like. That and I'm of the mindset that those that doubt how serious Covid-19 actually is don't have relatives/friends that work in the medical field that would have to deal with a large influx of new cases.

If they actually had skin in the game, [actual family members in the line of fire] they wouldn't be pushing the crap that I've seen pushed.

KwukDuck

  • Administrator
  • Legendary Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 6003
  • -Receive: 7231
  • Posts: 5540
Re: 888's furious ranting room
« Reply #108 on: May 18, 2020, 08:48:10 pm »
Some people kept making the point that this virus only kills as much as the common flu. This is wrong. This virus is more deadly than the common flu, and it is a virus ONTOP of the common flu which we have seasonly. Look at it this way, Covid-19 is on track to kill at least 200k American's by the end of 2020. The 62k common flu death number that is flung around is based on the worst flu season ever. We are 4 months into Covid-19 and we've got 90+k dead, and that is with sheltering in place to slow it's spread.

It may not be exactly on top of the common flu. If covid-19 takes out a large portion of those that would have come victim to the common flu this year, then this may turn out to be less of an increase than a simple addition.

But yea, i don't understand why people keep saying it's just the common flu or it's just as deadly, it's clearly not, not by any statistics, not in the US, not in Europe. Death rate will likely be adjusted downwards (hopefully) as testing becomes more prevalent and we get a better picture of how many are actually infected and asymptomatic or only show mild symptoms.

It's a difficult comparison to get a clear picture of the situation, facts vs epidemiological estimates.

TickleTheo

  • Explicit-Users
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 230
  • -Receive: 507
  • Posts: 332
Re: 888's furious ranting room
« Reply #109 on: May 18, 2020, 09:58:59 pm »
It may not be exactly on top of the common flu. If covid-19 takes out a large portion of those that would have come victim to the common flu this year, then this may turn out to be less of an increase than a simple addition.

But yea, i don't understand why people keep saying it's just the common flu or it's just as deadly, it's clearly not, not by any statistics, not in the US, not in Europe. Death rate will likely be adjusted downwards (hopefully) as testing becomes more prevalent and we get a better picture of how many are actually infected and asymptomatic or only show mild symptoms.

It's a difficult comparison to get a clear picture of the situation, facts vs epidemiological estimates.

Well, the reason why I say it is on top of the flu is the common flu is still going around. So you will get people that think they got Covid-19 that test negative for it and positive for just normal flu. So it is just another layer on to the cake of things that hospitals need to deal with.

There seems to be some train of thought that this will just take out the weak/old, it is more likely that it will depend on your level of exposure / viral load you get initially.

If you get unlucky and get a massive dose to start. Your body will have to not only fight what gets infected, but what multiplies as the virus replicates. This is why the N95 respirators are key for frontline workers, if they get exposed to too high a load, you get dead healthcare workers that didn't sign up for this.

If you are lucky and get a low dose, you are likely to become an asymptomatic carrier for a while which isn't bad for you, just bad for every person you come in contact with to infect and pass along the virus to. You get enough people in close proximity that are also asymptomatic carriers and voila. You've got a few people exposed with a high enough dose to give even a healthy person problems fighting off.  Hence why the meatpacking plants have been hit hard. This is also why you see nursing homes racking up the largest portion of deaths, you've lots of people with less than stellar immune systems living in close proximity. Basically a death sentence if even one person in a nursing home gets infected and starts passing it on to the residents of the nursing home.

Also, this is why reopening schools might not be in our best interest, at least if you value your teachers living through this pandemic. The kids might make it through ok, but you get enough asymptomatic kids, we'll likely get dead teachers to go along with our dead healthcare workers and so on.


poot222

  • Substantial Member
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 223
  • -Receive: 315
  • Posts: 316
Re: 888's furious ranting room
« Reply #110 on: May 18, 2020, 10:42:29 pm »
About the whole amendment discussion:
"You cannot change the 2nd amendment"

Did anyone actually say that in this discussion? Looks like a straw man.

poot222

  • Substantial Member
  • Administrator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 223
  • -Receive: 315
  • Posts: 316
Re: 888's furious ranting room
« Reply #111 on: May 18, 2020, 11:13:16 pm »
4 weeks ago, I had relatives on social media "sharing" videos of how empty the hospital ER's was in Cali. Those same videos showed how freaking empty all the main streets were and how it looked like how mostly everyone was adhering to the shelter in place orders.
Logical fallacy. The empty rooms are the result of actions 2+ weeks prior, not the same day. I think it is good we pumped the brakes a bit to get people's attention. I do not believe that a lockdown is a successful strategy, and time will bear that out. Distancing, masks, and reasonable accommodations to daily life will win this.

Quote
What did this show? Shelter in place slowed the spread significantly in Cali and some people saw this was a sign that the virus wasn't as deadly as proclaimed even though NY was having bodies piled into freaking refrigerator trucks.
Statistics would show that, not incidentals. Note how you framed your argument and changed it completely when talking about NY deaths. By the same logic used here, I could say that NY's lockdown resulted in refrigerators full of dead people. It did not. Prior weeks' activity did. The proximity and silent spreading (namely population density and a lack of cleanliness prevailing in the culture) is the more reasonable culprit.

Quote
Some people kept making the point that this virus only kills as much as the common flu. This is wrong.
It /is/ wrong. It seems to be killing less. I understand why you say "more" because so did I, at first. You are basing your death rates on testing results (which vary rom state to state) and in general, those were only being used in the beginning (when available) on cases they were fairly certain of. Meanwhile, random spot testing shows 20-25% of the adults in LA county already had the virus present and defeated. This exceeds the spread rate of the flu by several fold. The flu (which is a slow, fully symptomatic spreader) usually only hits 5%+ per year. It is much different than a coronavirus, which is a type of cold, and they are prolific spreaders and evolvers. Meaning damn near everyone will probably have this before we are through. Possibly more than once. And with an infection rate 20x greater than the flu, yeah, deaths will be higher.

The issue with death rate reporting is a whole separate discussion. Different states are handling it differently, based in financial incentives for Chinese virus deaths. Even positive testing does not indicate a true death. For example, 4 gunshot victims in LA county have a statistical likelihood that one of them has the virus. Is it a covid death? No, BUT it still requires the higher level decontamination procedures. The only way to get that money is to report it as a CV death. There is also the "soft cost" on deaths. For example, it is deadly primarily to people who are old, and have existing health issues. But then again, so is literally any activity or infection, so not a factor strictly in play with this pandemic. But what it is doing, is culling people who would very likely have died in the next 5 years. So our overall death rates for the next 5 years will probably go down. No, that does not mean I am OK with killng old people who are going to die anyways. We all are. No argument there.

Quote
So do we keep sheltering in place? Well. It isn't practical to shelter in place till a vaccine is developed, but the Federal government sure isn't helping in containing the virus. In fact, it has actively promoted spreading it and pushing misinformation.
So is our media. If you are referring to sound bites where Trump said eat tide pods to cure the Kung Flu, go back and read the transcript and listen to the dialog. The businessman is spitballing tactics that might work. He is not a doctor, but he is a problem solver, and sometimes peole who are not well versed are an excellent source for ideas that the Professors overlooked. See how the W engine was developed for the VW. A CEO wrote it on a napkin. Crazy idea. It was developed. Worked. If you believe that the prexy thought injecting bleach was a solution, we probably have nothing further to discuss on the topic. If you understand that he saw UV sterilization as an effective method and said "why don't we try that in the lungs" then you are indeed thinking for yourself. This is how businessmen get things done. You try ideas, and they either work, or they do not. If those doctors could do it better, they already would have. or THEY would be president, not sitting there taking orders. I might be biased. I have been the CEO.

Also, it is not the federal gov't job to reach into your daily life and cure a cold for you. In fact, legally there is not much it can do. Your state is better prepared for that, the feds con only release funds.

Quote
We need testing and contact tracing to get some measure of control on the outbreaks if we ever want some normality to return.
Yes, which is exactly what Texas has done. Massive increases in testing, coupled with re-opening and 4,000 Health Poilice officers who are supposed to handle tracing. This worked for South Korea. It is a good plan. Hopefully executed well in TX.

Quote
It seems unless you're insanely well connected or extremely wealthy, regular testing just isn't' something most of us can expect anytime soon sadly.
*Citation needed.

Quote
Why is there such a disparity and division that is so partisan with Covid-19?
Because people like an echo chamber. We spend a lot of time listening to how we are supposed to think. It is a lot of work to have to read, evaluate, and form your own opinions. Note that I have stated in this reply post, I have done so. Most people will not. The second issue is the polarity. One side wants zero restrictions, one wants total lockdown. Neither is the correct answer.

Quote
If they actually had skin in the game, [actual family members in the line of fire] they wouldn't be pushing the crap that I've seen pushed.
By the same argument, your closeness to the subject and the inherent risks to those you care about can *also* sway your opinions away from the facts. It can be deadly, it spreads like mad, we may never be immune to it. Much like damn near every single day of our normal lives. You have to find a personal balance and not trample on the rights of others. Again, like everyday life.

TickleTheo

  • Explicit-Users
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 230
  • -Receive: 507
  • Posts: 332
Re: 888's furious ranting room
« Reply #112 on: May 19, 2020, 12:33:54 am »
Logical fallacy. The empty rooms are the result of actions 2+ weeks prior, not the same day. I think it is good we pumped the brakes a bit to get people's attention. I do not believe that a lockdown is a successful strategy, and time will bear that out. Distancing, masks, and reasonable accommodations to daily life will win this.

Lockdown was never a strategy. It was meant as a way to flatten the curve and give the government enough to grasp control of the outbreaks and stamp them out. Then apply distancing, masks and reasonable accomadation to daily life. Of which instead of attempting that route, the Federal Government seems trying to push herd immunity or the let's blame China game while we're still having to deal with a pandemic. I'm all for blaming China after we've got our outbreaks under control and a working vaccine is in play. Before that is just stirring up problems and spreading Covid-19 further, which we don't need right now.

Quote
Statistics would show that, not incidentals. Note how you framed your argument and changed it completely when talking about NY deaths. By the same logic used here, I could say that NY's lockdown resulted in refrigerators full of dead people. It did not. Prior weeks' activity did. The proximity and silent spreading (namely population density and a lack of cleanliness prevailing in the culture) is the more reasonable culprit.

What I'm quoting is what various news pieces have stated:
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/14/opinions/california-new-york-covid-19-coronavirus-yang/index.html
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-why-isnt-californias-coronavirus-crisis-as-bad-as-new-yorks-size/
https://www.propublica.org/article/two-coasts-one-virus-how-new-york-suffered-nearly-10-times-the-number-of-deaths-as-california

Cali started their shelter in place just a bit earlier than NY and it made quite the difference in spread and severity.


Quote
It /is/ wrong. It seems to be killing less. I understand why you say "more" because so did I, at first. You are basing your death rates on testing results (which vary rom state to state) and in general, those were only being used in the beginning (when available) on cases they were fairly certain of. Meanwhile, random spot testing shows 20-25% of the adults in LA county already had the virus present and defeated. This exceeds the spread rate of the flu by several fold. The flu (which is a slow, fully symptomatic spreader) usually only hits 5%+ per year. It is much different than a coronavirus, which is a type of cold, and they are prolific spreaders and evolvers. Meaning damn near everyone will probably have this before we are through. Possibly more than once. And with an infection rate 20x greater than the flu, yeah, deaths will be higher.

The issue with death rate reporting is a whole separate discussion. Different states are handling it differently, based in financial incentives for Chinese virus deaths. Even positive testing does not indicate a true death. For example, 4 gunshot victims in LA county have a statistical likelihood that one of them has the virus. Is it a covid death? No, BUT it still requires the higher level decontamination procedures. The only way to get that money is to report it as a CV death. There is also the "soft cost" on deaths. For example, it is deadly primarily to people who are old, and have existing health issues. But then again, so is literally any activity or infection, so not a factor strictly in play with this pandemic. But what it is doing, is culling people who would very likely have died in the next 5 years. So our overall death rates for the next 5 years will probably go down. No, that does not mean I am OK with killng old people who are going to die anyways. We all are. No argument there.

I'm not basing my deaths on death rates of the general populace, I'm basing it on healthcare workers dropping dead to Covid-19. Healthy, decades-long trained workers who aren't easily replaceable.

Quote
So is our media. If you are referring to sound bites where Trump said eat tide pods to cure the Kung Flu, go back and read the transcript and listen to the dialog. The businessman is spitballing tactics that might work. He is not a doctor, but he is a problem solver, and sometimes peole who are not well versed are an excellent source for ideas that the Professors overlooked. See how the W engine was developed for the VW. A CEO wrote it on a napkin. Crazy idea. It was developed. Worked. If you believe that the prexy thought injecting bleach was a solution, we probably have nothing further to discuss on the topic. If you understand that he saw UV sterilization as an effective method and said "why don't we try that in the lungs" then you are indeed thinking for yourself. This is how businessmen get things done. You try ideas, and they either work, or they do not. If those doctors could do it better, they already would have. or THEY would be president, not sitting there taking orders. I might be biased. I have been the CEO.

I'm all for spitballing ideas... in a board room with experts giving me their opinions on the matter. When you're nationally elected leader starts spitballing those ideas of which he's not in any shape or form an expert in on national television, it is no longer spitballing. It is spouting crap you don't know to the masses in hopes that it makes you look like you are leading. Which isn't how leaders lead.

Also using VW as an example, you had an ENGINEER as a CEO that had an idea. Basically someone with expertise and in a leadership position to make it happen.
Quote
Also, it is not the federal gov't job to reach into your daily life and cure a cold for you. In fact, legally there is not much it can do. Your state is better prepared for that, the feds con only release funds.
You don't seem to really understand how much power the Federal Government actually welds or how many agencies it could put into motion or be using at the moment. The response I've been seeing is mostly either inaction or a vapid attempt to line their own pockets with the money we'll be paying in taxes for decades from now.

Quote
Yes, which is exactly what Texas has done. Massive increases in testing, coupled with re-opening and 4,000 Health Poilice officers who are supposed to handle tracing. This worked for South Korea. It is a good plan. Hopefully executed well in TX.
Which would have helped had TX not mostly opened up 2 weeks ago. At this point with exponential spread, I'd see TX locking down again for 3 weeks soon to attempt to rein control back to which contact tracing will work.

Quote
*Citation needed.
I'm looking at the White house/staff and now, sports franchises that are attempting to restart. The current plan for baseball is such that they test all the players/coaches/staff regularly and have them separated long enough to play out the 2020 season. Which means testing about 5-10k people regularly on a weekly basis.

Quote
Because people like an echo chamber. We spend a lot of time listening to how we are supposed to think. It is a lot of work to have to read, evaluate, and form your own opinions. Note that I have stated in this reply post, I have done so. Most people will not. The second issue is the polarity. One side wants zero restrictions, one wants total lockdown. Neither is the correct answer.

I've listened to both sides most of the time, the side on the right has an awful tendency to go either full racist or conspiracy theory or just plain crazy. The left while being mostly reasonable, isn't without its downsides. Most voters these days are just trying to pick the lesser of two evils, not really who they actually like. Most people don't actually like either side.

Quote
By the same argument, your closeness to the subject and the inherent risks to those you care about can *also* sway your opinions away from the facts. It can be deadly, it spreads like mad, we may never be immune to it. Much like damn near every single day of our normal lives. You have to find a personal balance and not trample on the rights of others. Again, like everyday life.
I'm not swayed far from the facts, I just watch what the government is actually doing instead of what they are saying. Actions tend to speak louder than words and this administration has repeatedly kept fumbling around either in inaction rather than leading or actively looking to not take any responsibility when things are looking grim, but will happily take credit when things are looking up.

TickleTheo

  • Explicit-Users
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 230
  • -Receive: 507
  • Posts: 332
Re: 888's furious ranting room
« Reply #113 on: May 19, 2020, 02:27:26 am »
Sweet Mary and Joseph. Trump just announced he's been taking hydroxychloroquine for weeks now.

Might as well start taking bets:

http://www.strawpoll.me/20095115

Bets on Trump taking hydroxychloroquine

  • Actually taking it [Not lying and actually telling the truth]
  • His Doctors swapped the pills so the 45th president doesn't kill himself
  • Not taking any, but is saying so to keep pushing the drug. [Probably owns a few million pills he needs to be sold off]


TickleTheo

  • Explicit-Users
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 230
  • -Receive: 507
  • Posts: 332
Re: 888's furious ranting room
« Reply #114 on: May 20, 2020, 08:49:15 pm »
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/davidmack/man-shares-photo-before-after-covid-19




Jesus. 6 weeks on a ventilator does that to a healthy person, no wonder if you are older or had lung problems beforehand or any pre-existing condition will Covid-19 kill you.


888

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1839
  • -Receive: 609
  • Posts: 776
Re: 888's furious ranting room
« Reply #115 on: May 21, 2020, 06:49:51 pm »
You see you (most of you - not all) COVID-19 knuckleheads?

Now HUNDREDS of doctors are saying how terrible this lockdown is.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/doctors-raise-alarm-about-health-effects-of-continued-coronavirus-shutdown
https://www.scribd.com/document/462319362/A-Doctor-a-Day-Letter-Signed#from_embed

From the letter:

'The millions of casualties of a continued shutdown will be hiding in plain sight, but they will be called alcoholism, homelessness, suicide, heart attack, stroke, or kidney failure. In youths it will be called financial instability, unemployment, despair, drug addiction, unplanned pregnancies, poverty, and abuse.'

But, oh...let me guess? You numbskulls know more than 600+ doctors what is right.
Suuuuuure you do.

Don't bother replying to me - I cannot waste my time reading the frantic blatherings of closed-minded sheep who blindly do whatever government tell them to do. You people make me (unliterally) sick.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 07:00:50 pm by 888 »

888

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1839
  • -Receive: 609
  • Posts: 776
Re: 888's furious ranting room
« Reply #116 on: May 21, 2020, 08:33:45 pm »
More information that shows that lockdowns are causing more harm than good (well...duh):

'A new report, “Projected Deaths of Despair During the Coronavirus Recession,” suggests as many as 75,000 Americans could die from “despair” due to unemployment, depression from isolation and fear of the indefinite and uncertain nature of the pandemic.

One of the study’s authors, Benjamin Miller, chief strategy officer for Well Being Trust in Oakland, Calif., said: “Deaths of despair are tied to multiple factors, like unemployment, fear and dread, and isolation. Prior to the COVID-19 pandemic, there were already an unprecedented number of deaths of despair. We wanted to estimate how this pandemic would change that number moving forward.” The study estimates that there could be 75,000 coronavirus-related “deaths of despair” from drug or alcohol abuse and suicide. Miller explained, “The isolation is causing people to lose boundaries on their behaviors. … People have to be working and we have to get people connected to other people.”

About the study, Dr. Elie Aoun, vice chairman of the American Psychiatric Association’s Council on Addiction Psychiatry, said: “I’ve been seeing this in practices and my colleagues have been talking about it, too. … Addiction patients are relapsing, and a lot of patients who don’t have drug use or alcohol problems are drinking more now, sometimes every day from 4 or 5 p.m., and they don’t stop until they sleep.”
'

https://www.bostonherald.com/2020/05/18/experts-expect-rise-in-deaths-from-despair-during-coronavirus-recession/

All you sheep who blindly believe whatever the government/bureaucrats tell you. And you ignore common sense and personal freedoms and liberties.

Just pathetic.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2020, 02:57:02 am by 888 »

pc84

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 51
  • Posts: 29
Re: 888's furious ranting room
« Reply #117 on: May 22, 2020, 03:25:46 am »
The U.S. and South Korea had their first cases of Covid right around the same time.

Keep in mind South Korea is roughly 1/5 the size of the US:

US cases - 1,600,000
SK cases - 11,000

US deaths - 96,000
SK deaths - 264

The disparity between these numbers is obscene. And why? Because South Korea took this seriously, had a plan in place, followed it, and aggressively tested. South Korea is almost 100% reopened while we sit and wait.

Bottom line is that Trump and the Government dropped the ball on this. While he was saying it was a Democratic hoax, the South Koreans were dealing with the issue at hand. And their most populated city, Seoul, is larger than NYC and didn't have a massive outbreak. If Trump had taken this seriously, and not ditched the pandemic preparedness team, we'd be in much better shape right now.

I read and pay attention and am always skeptical of just about everything. I don't swallow everything the government or media tells me, but I do tend to lean towards listening to the experts.

Bottom line, Trump didn't respond and it's costing us big time. But what do we really expect from a shady casino owner/reality TV star who was born a millionaire and has never held a political office before?


Inconspicuous

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 1589
  • -Receive: 676
  • Posts: 305
Re: 888's furious ranting room
« Reply #118 on: May 22, 2020, 03:39:52 pm »
The U.S. and South Korea had their first cases of Covid right around the same time.

Keep in mind South Korea is roughly 1/5 the size of the US:

US cases - 1,600,000
SK cases - 11,000

US deaths - 96,000
SK deaths - 264

The disparity between these numbers is obscene. And why? Because South Korea took this seriously, had a plan in place, followed it, and aggressively tested. South Korea is almost 100% reopened while we sit and wait.

It's cute that you believe the numbers SK is putting out there are accurate.  Not to mention the accuracy, or lack thereof, of the US numbers.

nhb2007noo

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 4
  • Posts: 9
Re: 888's furious ranting room
« Reply #119 on: May 22, 2020, 04:18:21 pm »
"It's cute that you believe the numbers SK is putting out there are accurate.  Not to mention the accuracy, or lack thereof, of the US numbers."

I have a friend who was a US citizen, but then because of a tax dispute, he renounced his US citizenship to become a South Korean citizen. He now lives in Singapore, but he still travels to the US frequently.

Early on in the pandemic, South Korea--because he was a South Korean citizen--was obsessively keeping tabs on him, his movements, his temperature. They developed an app. He was required to take his temperature every day at set intervals and input the data into the app. If he failed to do so, his phone would ring with a person reminding him to do so. South Korea got this system in place very early on. And my friend even got the calls even though he never traveled inside South Korea and was never there during the pandemic.

By contrast, my friend flew into the United State from Asia during the same period which was after the direct flights from China into the US were stopped. He described a system in which getting off the plane, there was no screening whatsoever! Specifically, he entered Chicago on a direct flight from Japan. Obviously, the supposed benefit of shutting down flights to and from China are diminished where there are still jumping off points into the US from China. This example shows how hopeless the US is that in believing that there is a public health crisis sufficiently important to shut down all flights into the US from China that they cannot also manage to get someone to take temperatures on passengers disembarking flights from points in Asia.

I offer this story to demonstrate the tremendous differences in response to the catastrophe based upon preparedness.

To return to the earlier question: who is cooking the books. I think that you have it exactly backwards! The South Korean government understands (and demonstrates) that an open public health response is better. This difference is fundamental. And it helps to explain why there is so much less buy in from the populace in the US than elsewhere in the world. (The skeptical responses on this board point to a crisis in confidence. Indeed, part of our problem right now is that we in the US have so very little faith in our government.) Further, it's far more likely that the US numbers have been massaged than the South Korean numbers. For instance, we know that the Florida state epidemiologist in charge of keeping the numbers was fired for not keeping them low. We know that early on Trump wouldn't let passengers off the cruise ship because he liked the numbers where they were.

Tags: